Here are a few river bets from tonight. I'm curious what people think about them as well as the other streets.

V1 is an old, straightforward rock, V2 is a loose aggressive fish. Some guy calls in early position, V1 limps in MP, V2 limps on the button, I complete in the SB with J8 and the BB checks. Flop ($25) T83, checks to V2 who bets $20, I call, fold, and V1 calls. Turn ($65) 4 (or something like that, I don't remember exactly; it was a blank) and it checks around. River ($65) T and I bet $35.

I make it $20 UTG with 99 and three fish call, including V2 from previous hand in the BB. Flop ($82) 764, BB checks, I opt not to bet for some pot control / deception and it checks around. Turn ($82) 4 BB bets $65, I call, others fold. River ($212) 6 he checks and I bet $55. (This is probably too small. I think I was a bit hasty with my bet and didn't really count my chips carefully beforehand.)

I limp 66 in early position, tight-passive guy limps and the blinds (who are pretty fishy) play. Flop ($20) 894 and it checks around. Turn ($20) K and it checks around again. River ($20) 9 it checks to me and I bet $10. (This I'm fairly sure is a bad bet, but I was curious how bad people think it is.)

I like the first 2 and would agree that the 3rd is probably too thin.

What are you expecting to call in hand 1 and 3 that you beat?

I actually like the river bet on hand 2... There's quite a few worse hands that will call you here for 55 with bluffcatchers. If you have a read that BB likes to be a hero, then go for a bit more. Don't forget, most LLNL players don't think in terms of pot size, they think in terms of $$. However if vil is capable of c/r bluffing his whiffs, check behind. Because if he's capable of that, he's also capable of checking his boats here knowing that you will be betting a pretty wide range.

1 makes little sense. Range your opponents, you're not folding out better and not getting called by worse.

I dislike all 3 and the lines you took.

It's not a bluff. I figured it was very likely neither player had a T (I expect V1 to lead his tens almost always, V2 continues on the turn with his tens most of the time as well, and another T came on the river) so I figured I would generally be up against better 8's at best. My main target was the fish on the button who is capable of bad calls (in this situation possibly rationalizing that I could have J-9 or 7-9) and might hold a weaker 8 or some other random pair.

I think hand 1 is the easiest out of all of them.

Hand 2 is really thin but if we have a betting range here at all we should have a bluffing range and a value range and this hand has got to be near the top of our value range.

i like 20 for hand 1

i like hand 2

i prefer 35 for hand 3, this is to ensure 8x folds always and this also puts Kx in a not so happy spot and whoever has Kx might elect to just surrender the pot since theres nothing in it.

i think 10 gets looked up 8x always (id call if i was the blinds with 8x)

depends what your intentions are with 66 in that hand, i think im bluffing and want 8x to fold and for kx to be confused.

The 6-6 hand was actually a pure value bet hoping to get called by a 4 or maybe ace high, but I'm thinking it's quite bad against 3 opponents. I play a lot of heads-up limit holdem on my computer where razor thin value bets are standard, and I think I just "clicked" bet without really thinking.

dislike hand 1. Probably just folding flop, but as played, I don't see him calling with worse very often. I'd check back the river and expect to win most of the time.

River on hand 2 looks good.

Then you should bet, and the question comes down to sizing.

I love the bet in hand 1 and don't think I'm betting that often enough and always wondered if I should bet when the river makes top pair three of a kind. I think it's very profitable to bet in that spot because you do get called by worse, fold out better. Good spot to wager and sizing seems spot on.

Hand 2 is too small on the river. Not sure but I'd go closer to 90. 55 seems ok tho if they play particularly passive. Vs someone aggressive they can raise you and make your life suck

Hand 3 is whatever why throw away money. Just set mine and go away.

1: just fold flop. As played, meh. Maybe a worse 8 calls. Not horrible cause you usually have the best hand but I'd just check.

2: not betting the flop is terrible. Seriously cannot check this flop. As played bet bigger, yeah.

3: check

Hand 1 is probably bad. The other two are way way too thin.

#1 V2 likely doesn't have a hand worse than you that will call the river. V1 can absolutely have you beat, and since he's nitty and has V2 behind him, he's not paying you with worse 8's. K8/A8 I would value bet.

#2 Your flop check back was absolutely terrible, that's the biggest mistake of the hand by far. Calling turn is okay, I would probably check back river, I wouldn't expect someone to call with a 7 and we have decent SD value. I'd expect calls from 4's flushes and straights.

#3 People aren't going to hero you enough. You're betting from EP so you have no idea if the 9 helped someone. Not everyone bets TP on the flop. People won't bet 8's which are just as likely (if not more) likely to call river than 4's or A high. Check and be happy if you win. Bluffing river is better than value betting half pot, and your sizing is just too small to make someone fold an 8.

In the first hand, I've played with this villain before and he is aggressive enough to bet tons of his air hands and worse value hands on the flop, so folding seems pretty bad.

I checked the flop in the second hand because hands that call will generally have a lot of equity against my hand if I'm not already beat, and I'll generally be out of position when that happens. I'm hoping for a safe turn card and then getting in a high-valued bet with a well-hidden hand. It also helps me to cheaply get a read on the other players' hands. Checking might be a mistake, but I don't think it's "absolutely terrible." As far as him check-calling the river with a 4, 6 or a flush goes, the problem is that he almost never has these hands.

No, its not a terrible flop check. Its a very good check.

Say you bet, and I am guessing you just bomb it because you have an overpair and there are a ton of draws. What do you do if someone in position calls, it goes heads up to the turn, there is now 200 in the pot cause you decided 60 was the bet size to use and then turn is Kh/Ad/3s/Qs?

hell you might even decide for some reason, that 75 is the right bet size since theres so much that can call you. pot is now 230. whats the plan on the turn?

argument can be made for betting if there was one caller in position and you are vs the blinds or 1 blind and 1 limper. even then, i think you get yourself into trouble more often than not

this is a very marginal spot. dont let the fact you have a overpair fool you into putting in a lot of money here barring some read.
this is an easy bet with JJ. TT goes either way.

d_saxton, it would be a helpful exercise to yourself if you break down entire range against V2 in hand 1.

You do not need to worry about hands that won't call, so just focus on hands that you believe will call your river bet, and break them down into combinations that you beat and that beat you.

Hand 2 is fine. Hand one is ok... I just don't see a hand worse that would call, maybe 98?. Hand 3 I would agree is a bad bet, almost never getting a worse hand to call.

I'm checking a lot but not all turns. Doesn't mean that flop bet is bad. We're against a load of fish. We can't allow them their free equity with random overcards. We're not playing good players here.
Are we check, giving up unless an undercard hits on the turn? What's the point of raising 99 pre if we're not value betting on one of the nicest boards around?

Checking the flop in hand 2 is definitely horrible. We likely have the best hand and many worse can call, so we bet. Elementary poker.

You decide what to do on the turn based on what happens. Checking the flop is just scared poker. What's the plan? C/c and fold to further aggression? Are we trying to let people draw out on us? That kind of passive play is just awful.

I guess we disagree about what is a good situation for two nines. I don't consider multiway coordinated flops the best around, and am ideally hoping for fewer callers and a drier board.

It doesn't matter what we were hoping for to happen, we're given this flop and 3 players (fish) to the hand.

Pretty much everyone is folding their air to a c-bet which is a good result, there is a lot of dead money. We have a vulnerable hand.

We can get lots of worse hands to call + draws. If it gets checked around we're checking any card T+, and possibly hearts or 5's which is a lot of turns.

it sure does matter what is going to happen, i prefer to have a plan for turns and rivers before putting money into the pot.

i dont think a cbet is bad, but its pretty marginal.

if i knew for a fact it was going heads up to the turn, i would lean towards betting. but id rather pot control in spots where villian(s) can call a wide range and i would have literally no clue as to what their range is.

it could be 5x, it could be hearts, it could be overs with one heart.

and its of course a disaster if i bet and get raised on this board also

ideally when i check this flop. i am hoping for one of the villians behind me to bet and then i will decide what to do after action gets back to me.

for example, if next in bets 50, btn calls and the blind calls. id probably dump (or check raise all in)