Yet again I have ruined a solid poker session with poor play, drinking, and lack of critical thought in a big hand.

I have been at the table for about 8-9 hrs, I had the opportunity to leave when I said I would with +110 BB's after about 5hrs, but I have since been playing for a few more hours currently up only 50BB's trying to make it back. Current mental state is tired, drunk, playing looser than usual, very degenerate like.

Multiple problems are already apparent; The inability to adhere to limits I've set for my poker playing (staying too late), excessive drinking and continued play despite it's deteriorated quality.

How should I have played this hand besides getting up and leaving?

1/2
Villain is an interesting player, seems to be quite solid, but has made a couple mistakes. Namely he called a river bet with T high, almost seemed like his play was image construction as he began getting lots of action with the best of it. And his pre-flop play has been too loose, he has been calling 3-bets light and opening a little too frequently.
Despite this, when the money has gone in he has had the best of it, made a nice river check raise with set of Q's getting called by two pair, and has made some impressive reads and folds.
Late 20's BG with about 500BB's

He opens for 10 from early position, he opens very frequently for 10 but usually MP or later.
MP calls
Hero (250BB) calls with A4
BB calls


Flop: 449

BB checks
V checks
MP checks
Hero checks

Turn: 449K

BB checks
V bets 10$
MP folds

Hero raises to 35$

BB folds
V re-raises to 60$ ? weird

Hero calls

River: 449KA

Ok, I has full house.. This is good. But really nothing has changed, I'm either still ahead or still behind. Less likely he has AK now.

V bets 60$

I'm not sure what to do.. This casino has max bet of 100$ so if I raise it has to be 160$ max and he can come back with 260$ at most.

I was telling myself he was trying to get a cheap showdown and avoid a 100$ river bet.

I instinctively made it 160$ hoping for a call, he did some hollywood, "what do you have?" type stuff and made it 260$

Feeling like an idiot now, I basically picked up my cards shaking my head and said "man you have kings?? and threw in 100$ more without hesitation"

He showed 99's

This hand highlights a lot of problems with my game.
Probably a good indication I'm a losing player and need to take a break until I'm prepared to play as well as I can and keep an honest account of my win/loss and hand history.

Can I ever fold river here? Even turn raise probably puts me behind his range

I'm thinking raising the river is disastrous, and calling his raise is just gifting him another 50BB's.

probably should just call the river though

u sure poker is for you?

I'm pretty sure it's not for me. I enjoy playing, but it's not profitable. I fall into a trap of thinking I'm better than I actually am and make costly mistakes on a regular basis. I'm trying to graduate from school this semester and usually go up once a week on fridays, but I think I'm going to stop playing unless I'm putting in the time to study the game on a regular basis.

We often forget that in no limit, reopening the betting gives the Villain another shot at our entire stack. The sound of a twig snapping a mile away is the only warning we get.

Calling A4s for a raise is a mistake.

Not betting the flop is a mistake.

Not flatting the river is a mistake.

Playing so late we can't think well is a mistake.

Drinking to the point our computational and rational abilities are impaired is a mistake.

Knowing all this and playing anyhow is the biggest mistake.

Just breaking even, much less winning, at no limit requires forethought and discipline.

It's not for everyone.

Forgot to add this, from somewhere or something I read a really long time ago.

Playing as described is very much "throwing away your time and your money with methodical certainty".

Not many folks enjoy it.

Jeepers Creepers Quinth. don't be so hard on yourself.
By what you're saying, it's not uncommon for you to be up a lot only to lose it at the end.
If these assumptions are right, then obviously you have some poker talent along with, unfortunately, some major leaks.
But, the leaks seem easily fixable if you can develop the proper discipline.
Most pros will tell you, keep playing when you're running good.
So, you not quitting after being up is not necessarily a leak.
What is a leak is not quitting after you get tired and start noticing your play is deteriorating.
What is a leak is obviously getting drunk while playing.
As for the hand itself, I'll leave better qualified people than my self to comment on that.

If you decide to play again don't drink while playing. Period. No exceptions. It will help with everything.

When you make a commitment to yourself (like I'm going to leave after 5 hours or after I'm 110bbs up) stick to it. If you can't keep your word to yourself tell someone you trust and respect and commit your plan to them. Follow up with them when you leave.

I'd work on following through with commitments to yourself. Start by waking up in the morning on a day off when you say you will. Build from there and you can integrate these type of commitments into your poker game.

If you can't do those things my advise would be to stop playing for money. You control your integrity and it's something that can continuously improve. Also don't be so hard on yourself, just take ownership, learn from it, and change some of your behaviors .

Yeah, you should probably just flat the river given the tiny turn lead and x/min-raise. V doesn't have many (any) 4's in his PFR range I'm guessing.

I think you should also bet the flop. We have effectively the 2nd nuts; let's start building a pot (especially since we're actually playing 100-limit rather than no limit). I think it's also more deceptive, since LLSNL V's like to slow-play the nuts (as this guy did).

Calling A4s preflop 250 BB deep is fine.


More importantly, yeah you should probably take a break from poker and either work on the mental aspects or treat it as entertainment.

Despite the overall vibe around here, not making money at poker isn't a crime. I sometimes go to movies and, gosh darn it, I lose money every time I do. But I'm shameless and just keep going back. Anyway, you get my point.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

You have to get the degen lifestyle under control. If not, your poker game will be your last concern. As for the hand, I think a raise/fold on the river is the best approach. At 1/2 and 2/5, if you can bet/fold or raise/fold with your value hands, you can print money. It is a skill that is emotionally difficult so it takes time to get accustomed to.

I actually like the way you played this hand, except I'd argue that betting flop is probably better.

Having a suited Ace on the button 200bbs+ deep facing a single raise and going multiways to the flop is not a "fold pre" lmao.

Flatting river is far too nitty and misses value from weaker trips, weaker boats and AK. We have to raise here.

And of course, river is never a fold, getting 5:1 odds with a boat. Just the fact that we beat K4s and 54s alone makes it a call.

As far as self control goes, read "Elements of Poker" by Tommy Angelo. It approaches self control and awareness in a very intuitive and helpful way. As for the hand, betting flop and just calling river are the only real changes I'd make.

Don't fold pre, do bet flop.

As played raise turn bigger.

As played don't flat river, raising is perfectly fine. Normally I'd raise/fold. With these max bets of $100 it's a bit awkward, though. I dunno, I guess I'd raise/evaluate and then flip a coin or something.

You probably have the wrong mindset to play poker at this moment. It's costing you money and you're not taking it as seriously as you want to. You seem to have a clear idea of your problems. I'd say that's the first step to solving them. Good luck!

Dude you sound results oriented AF. 110 bbs is nothing. If you're constantly thinking about how much you're up or down during a session you're done.

Given how deep you are playing, flat-calling in LP with this hand is defendable. Cases can also be made for folding or 3-betting preflop. All options are fine.

You should have bet the flop for value and called a raise to around 120 then called down 100 on the turn and river.

You were always destined to lose at least around $320 on this hand. It was a cooler. You did well not to lose more.

Man it would not have helped here but you have to bet that flop. Don't check it in 1/2 with a bunch of flunkies checking. Also, never drink and gamble. I won't drink anything but water/diet coke at the table.

thanks man, that's one of the few books i haven't read. I'm taking your recommendation brother.

Yah villain is raising these hands in EP (all two combos of them). Sick read bro.

I hope you like it. It definitely isn't a "how to play poker" book but more of a "what it takes to be successful" book. It made a huge impact for me personally on all the off the table/conceptual topics. Cinderella syndrome (playing well before spewing at the end of a session) is one of the most helpful topics covered so I thought it was particularly relevant here. Free pdf can be found with a quick Google search

Hey man, I play the hand slightly different. But fact is its a cooler. That being said it is really really tough to beat poker for a decent clip. It is not rocket science - BUT tilt, thinking you are better than you are, leveling, etc all make it difficult, and many people are simply unable to plug some of these leaks. Just about everyone would be better off if they had never discovered poker. It is an incredible time sink and a nasty environment.

My point is poker aint going any where. Get your priorities in line. Finish up school with a bang. Kick ass in your classes. Go out on weekends and socialize. You will most likely never have an easier time meeting women than your college years. If you miss poker you can always come back to it and pick up where you left off

THIS.

AND THIS.

Concur with the above.

Being surrounded by thousands of at least somewhat intelligent teenage-early 20s girls who are looking to have fun seems like it's just a normal state of affairs, but I assure you it is not. Even just getting hammered with guys you are pretty close to and with whom you legitimately share interests and among whom you can act naturally is far from a given once you enter the working world. Very unlikely you'll look back and college and wish you spent more time at a casino.

If you do get good at poker, it can be nice. If you wind up with a crummy job, or are unemployed, poker can allow you to eat out and take vacations, or pay off some debt or stay out of debt. But if you lack self control, that won't happen.

I would check out Tommy Angelo in any case, since at bottom, he is about elevating your general mindset and for my money, there is nobody close when you factor in accessibility, effectiveness and authenticity. Reading a book is always easier said than done. I'd listen to some of his longer interviews on youtube. If they click for you, then read the books.

Grunch

Preflop is meh. If BB is a fish who doesn't squeeze it's fine.

I like turn x/r. River I'm not fol

You're in college? Oh man, so young.

Go out & meet some young beautiful women and forget about poker for the time being. Don't waste your youth.

Villain is described as a loose player that opens too wide and calls 3bets too wide. I think it's safe to assume that this player isn't completely positionally aware too: he probably opens way too loose in EP.

K4s and 54s were just random examples of hands that we beat. You can replace this with 1-2 combos of spazz raises too if you'd like. Maybe villain's favourite hand is Q4s and he never folds Q4s because of that one big pot he won 2 weeks ago?

We literally lose to 7 combos in total and we're getting 5:1 odds on a call. If you can find even 1.3 combos that we beat, then a call is justified.

If the stupid $100 raise rule didn't exist, then I'd advocate raise/folding river, but we're getting just too good of a price to fold here when we literally only need to beat 1.3 combos to justify a call.

Anyone saying to 3! Pre didn't read the description of V.

A4s is solidly in our bluff 3! range, and V calls 3!s light. So unless our plan is to 3! pre and then barrel 2-3 streets, 3! w/ A4s is just lighting money on fire if V is good enough to play postflop. We should also be taking into consideration that he's opening from EP, i.e. He has a stronger range.

While OP has said he seems to open looser, he does not quantify that at all, so we really don't know his range. We also don't know if he's opening looser in general, i.e. He's just loose everywhere, or if it's in later positions and isn't noticed specifically by OP.