2/5 9 handed. Hero is sb with 7c7s $ 640. Up and down sesh, can't make any money with hands tonight etc.

4 total limps, including v1($150) who is an OMC prolly mid 50s , hardly ever see him with more than 100bbs, don't even see him in the room much anymore tbh. V2 is another mid 50s rec player who likes tipping A lot, seen him once or twice, here with his son, some dealers know hkm, however I've seen him only a couple times ever. (Covers, is very loose passive pre, playing too many hands and doesn't seem aware of other player tendencies etc, capable of spazzing post, etc etc etc. They are both utg+1 & mid position


Soo limps to me in SB i complete.

Flop ($25) 7dJc9c . V1 leads out $25. V2 snap makes it $100. Back to me on want to see how much v1 has behind to make sure V2 can't 4bet flop if I flat his hundo. I see he can't and elect to just call as I don't want V to fold..... I call, v1 folds.

Turn ($250) 3h V2 snap jam my $540 eff.

My only reasoning for posting this is because of V1 leading flop and given my hand I guess there's really only the 16 combos of T8 im losing to if we range v1 Only on a J, and we have the pocket hockey sticks. Do we eveeeeeeer consider a fold given these Dynamics?

Snap call. 99% good here.

Why are you afraid of a 4bet on a fairly dry board?

I don't want v1 to fold if 3bet flop , which I expect this specific V to do. How is this a fairly dry flop? . Not that I'm folding if I get 4bet obv but just feels dumb sometimes

As played, l have to figure what does V have? QQ+ but limps, so no. Two pair that are afraid of you hitting a straight. A SET? 33? I doubt because of the way the hand has played. 99, maybe JJ, but JJ would bet pre so we are back to 99 or 8T. Fold. It's not easy, but he asking you to put in $540. Maybe wait for a better spot.
You have the advantage of watching him play. Would he bluff that much? Would he bet top two that much?

He raised some hands prior, I don't think I can give him 99 as a limp I mean maybe but has to be a small% of time. Definitely not JJ he's not that tight. Given v1s lead as Jx (because i think this guy checks almost all his flush/str8 draws)that def takes away V2 having 97, j9,j7 combos but also t8 jamming 2x pot is so laughable to most of us, however later in the night i saw him ripp 77 on T67hh in a HU 3bet pot for like 600 otf effective again like 2x pot on what he might think is a scary board. So I wish I had seen that prior, because nothing before my hand made me believe he's playing that scared as far as protection post flop...

If your read is right that he spazzes post flop, it would be an instant call. He can have so many hands that think they are good but are behind you. Even if he has the nuts, you have 10 outs to go ahead on the river.

There's an old poker saying that if you didn't go broke with a set, you played them wrong.

Zero chance I fold here.

I agree, should call there.
He might do this with hands like AJ, KJ, JT, QTs, J9, T9, 98, 97, J7, maybe even 78s. thats a lot more combos than the T8 and sets.
To me his line looks like hes trying to protect a decent but volatile hand like 2p or push you off equity with a draw.

There's another old saying. Don't go broke in a limped pot without the nuts.....or something to that effect.

But no, Im not folding this.

I'd lead flop and probably 3bet flop as played.

Now call obviously.

I would shove flop, as you have 40% against T8 but your equity goes way down on the turn. I don't mind folds here, any club and any non-pairing card 8-Q make it hard to get value. In the worst case when we're up against T8cc we still have 35% equity. Plus, if we shove, they could look us up thinking we have the NFD.

Players have a hard time folding the NFD here so I think we'll get plenty of value by shoving.

Worst case is actually you're against a higher set and have 4% equity on the turn. Possible with the read of being super loose passive, if the passive side is truly that pronounced. If we can rule out JJ and 99, this becomes closer to a call.

I can see villain having J9 or J7s -that's what we're "hoping" if we call - but want to know more about the postflop spazzing tendency. What were the prior situations like when villain went off?

Nothing terribly of note that I remember but most definitely capable of punting but he was calling raises in straddled pot with 65o and multiple people behind etc... Anywho... Otth, so I call turn, river bricks and he has T8o, stupid omc seat taker upper announces he folded 2 pair otf, picks up his remaining $100 or whatever and leaves

Sorry you lost this time but I think this is a very straightforward call. Even though he has T8 a lot here -- and yes, lots of LLSNL players are terrified of the flush and will overbet shove with the nut straight on the turn (lol I know) -- he also has J9 and 97 nearly as often. We're well over 40% against a range of {T8,J9,97,99}. When he bets 2x pot we need at least 40% equity to make a profitable call. So call.

If villain can value shove with worse, you have to call 100% of the time.
If you can ever give him 99 or JJ in his range because you think he could limp big pocket pairs hoping to limp/3bet pre, then you can also give him TT-AA which you smash.
You’re near the top of your range, so you can’t fold to spewy or spazzy players in this spot.
Does he take this line with T8? Sure, but maybe not all the time, and most players don’t snap bet the nuts. They usually take a second to at least consider their options.

should we not be raising 77 preflop from the SB to like 30-35 here?

Eh, I don't mind set mining here. I don't really want to play a big pot OOP against several opponents.

In any event, OP, I think this is a snap call.

I would have fast played via ck-3b flop to lock out v1 and gii asap vs V2. There are too any hands available to a spaz-type to ever consider anything but a check call. If the options was there, you should have more money on the table to have him covered for spots just like this one.

We went set mining, we hit our set, and a loose wild fish shoved on us. On a wet board. We’re beating a ton of his range: flush draws, straight draws, pair+flush draws, pair+straight draws, 2 pairs, sometimes were beat and we still have equity! This is the EZ call

+1

How much 2/5 live do you play? What are you accomplishing here? Hardly ever is this getting enough folds pre for this to be profitable, once one person calls, we are going 8 ways to the flop. (Being fecicious)

Start by leading the flop. This is not a good c/r spot.

As played I'd cry call and expect to see T8o like, half the time probably, maybe more.

With a better read I could fold this, old guys who aren't total idiots don't usually go broke here with less than bottom set.

Fold when it is two bets to you on the flop. Don't go broke in an unraised pot.

That has to be the worst option given my effective stack and one goofball with a 30 bb stack

/thread