Hand #1 - 1/2 NLHE
Hero: SB (~$460)
V1: MP(~$150) Good LAG
V2: BTN (~$370) Tight Passive

Preflop: Hero AQo, BB, limp, limp, V1 raise to 10, V2 calls, Hero calls, BB calls, both limpers call. Pot: $60. Did not want to 3! since V1 was most likely shoving in this spot.

Flop: QsQc7d
Hero checks, check, check, check, V1 bets $35, V2 calls, Hero flats, fold, fold, fold. Pot: $165.

Turn: Js
Hero leads out $55 into V1, V1 shoves $105 and is all-in, V2 calls $105(!), Hero calls. Pot: $480.

River: the biggest brick I could hope for the 2d.

Check, Check. Hero shows AQ for trip Queens with A kicker, V1 mucks, V2 shows KQ for trip Queens with K kicker.

Should I have shoved on the river (or the turn even) for V2's remaining $220? I didn't know what V2 had, was OOP, and was genuinely surprised that V2 called $105 on the turn to my lead and V1's shove. I didn't think V2 had the case Queen, and so I was putting him on either unlikely pocket 7s or an unlikelier (he was pretty tight) flush/straight draw. On the river I wasn't going to get called with a busted draw. On the turn, there was a lot of money already in the pot and I sort of wanted to keep the pot small. I'm pretty aggressive, but I was a bit lost in this hand and OOP on the river. Did I play too scared/conservative and lose a shirt ton of value in this spot?


Hand #2 - 2/5 NLHE
Hero: MP (~$460)
Villain: MP + 1 (~$560) bad TAG

Preflop: fold, fold, Hero 6h7h open to $20, villain 3! to $40, fold, fold, fold, BB calls, hero calls the min raise (if it was more, I'd fold OOP, but I figured I'd toss in the call against what was most likely an overpair with the best hand to beat it. Biggest mistake!). Pot: $120.

Flop: 8h5h2d
Hero can't believe the miracle flop, gets overexcited with the OESFD and donk bets $55 into pre-flop raiser with the favorite on the flop against an overpair. Villain (or is he the hero in this hand? :P), raises to $120, BB folds, hero thinks about shoving but just calls. Pot: $360.

Turn: 3d
Hero checks, villain bets $120, hero calls. Pot: $600.

River: 6d.

Hero, sensing a little weakness with villain's turn sizing, decides to donk his remaining $180 in the off-chance that he will fold. Villain calls. Hero shows 67 for a pair of 6s, hero shows JJ for a pair of Jacks and wins the pot.

Other than folding pre-flop OOP with a little suited connector, how could I have played this better? a) Check/call (if priced right/fold if not), check/call (if priced right/fold if not), check/fold? b) Check/shove flop, c) check/raise flop, shove turn, d) lead/call raise flop (as played), shove turn, e) lead/call raise flop (as played), check/call turn (as played), check/fold river?

I think d) or e) might have made more sense. I was feeling adventurous (read stubborn), and so e) was most likely not going to happen.

Hand 1, shove river.

Hand 2, please post in its own thread.

Hand 1: 3bet pre. Don´t overcall flop and lead out turn. Hugely transparent. As played, dunno. If he got all QJ, QT, QK and AK as well as 77 and even some JJ, might be fine not to shove.

Hand 2: pre is fine. Postflop is a total mess.

Hand 1:
I can't exactly tell what your position is, are you the SB? If you're the SB this hand is certainly a good candidate to 3-bet with, but calling is fine as well. I'd 3 bet probably around 2/3 of the time and flat the rest.

Flop: calling is fine here, realizing with the C-bet and call before you act there is a good chance you are up against another Queen, which is great news.

Turn: I like a lead here, your hand is almost always good. helpful betting tip in spots like this, I try to size my bet exactly half of the short stack so that if he/she jams I still have the option to raise again. If you had bet $50 instead of $55 you would have been able to raise to $175-$185 and build an immediate side pot, with an easy river shove to come.

River: A couple of questions that I ask myself in spots like this.
1) Do I think I have the best hand? (most likely yes)
2) If I check, will I fold to a river shove from my opponent? (Nope, not with the pot so big already)
3) Will a hand worse than mine call a shove? (I think plenty of worse trip Queen hands will call, KQ, QT, Q9.)
Based on those Q&A's, you should be shoving this river every time. It's less than a 1/2 size pot bet and your hand is good a high% of the time. With an opponent already all in, your villain is highly unlikely to bluff in this spot with a dry side pot. The amount of times you will miss out on value by checking far outweighs the amount of times you will lose on the river. If you are losing, the $ is going in anyways as your opponent is not checking back a full house. If your money is always going in when you're losing, you might as well as just shove yourself so you don't miss the value when you're ahead. I think you would have gotten a crying call in this spot.

Hand 2 seems more interesting to me so all I'll comment on.

Probably just fold 67s in MP though raising is OK too. Call the tiny 3-bet.

OTF I go for a check-raise rather than a donk. Think the donk gets called too much, and if flop checks through (which is the customary risk with going for a x/r) that's not a disaster either since we have 7-high.

As played shove flop. We're never doing that badly against V, who probably has an overpair once he raises our donk.

Turn is fine, as played just check fold river and save $180.

Thanks, I will post Hand 2 in a separate thread next time. Sorry, I'm a newbie to the forums.

Yes, the post-flop is a total mess. I was tilting -- I wasn't angry, I was just overconfident and taking a shot at the bigger game. I was ready to play and push people around. It backfired yes, but I'm cool with that.

@jtm1208
Yes, I was in the SB. You're absolutely right. If he had better, the money was going in. He would have called off with KQ too. I should have put him on the case queen. Had he been holding pocket 7s, he'd have raised turn instead of flatting it. You're absolutely right in that I should be getting value when I'm ahead. Thanks for the sizing tip! That's going to work wonders for me.

@MIB211
I'm a newbie to NLH, having played a lot of low-mid limit holdem, and low-mid limit Omaha hi-low. I've been crushing the 12NLHE, but I still get into a lot of spots I shouldn't be getting into. Once I wasn't folding pre, check-shove the flop, or check-call/shove the turn makes more sense than the donk bet. Next time I'll either do that or save the $180 (save more cause villain would have bet less if I didn't donk so much!)

Thanks for all the feedback. I'm working on improving my game, and it is much appreciated!

2nd hand you absolutely must shove flop.

Hand 2: Pre is too loose from what i assume is UTG+2
call flop or c/r are fine, leading seems bad
as played check call turn is good
as played leading river is very bad

Taking shots at 2/5 does not seem smart

Hand 1: Your getting stacked by full house. So you need to bet and hope to get called by worse queens.

Hand 2: Train wreck on everystreet.

Preflop: Fold, you don't play well enough postflop to make this hand profitable.

Flop: Check/raise, or check/call, whatever helps your range best. This hand is very flexible. I don't have a donking range. You shouldn't either, keep things simple.

Turn: Think we need to dink ship, but honestly not gonna spend time to figure it out. As, we should have just shipped on flop.

River: What does shipping accomplish. Start with check and hope to save $180. If he bets, think we have to fold, which is ridiculous after putting in 75% of our starting stack.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Hand 2:

Optimally, you'd be folding in this spot instead of entering with a raise. Too many people behind you to act still. You'd want to be closer to the button to open with this hand. Obviously not folding to a min-bet, especially once the BB cold calls as well.

Before the flop comes, let's put a range on the villain who raised your bet. In my experience super strong hands are not min-raising pre-flop in this spot, with so many people behind to act. A hand like AA, KK, AKs, AKo, QQ is more likely to make a standard raise to $55+. Hands that min-raise here are most likely strong, but not top tier and they want to isolate you preflop instead of playing multiway. Hands like 99-JJ, AQs, AQo, AJs, AJo, ATs, KQs are the types of hands that would min-raise here, in my experience. Smaller Pocket pairs and other suited connected type hands will most likely be flatting preflop.

Your Range (in villain's eyes): your range is a bit wider than your opponent, but also does not include premium hands. If you had QQ+ or AK, you're not flatting the min-raise. Your range includes Any suited Ace (excluding AKs), AQo - ATo, any two Broadway cards, suited connectors, and medium to low pocket pairs.

Flop: 8h5h2d
pretty much exactly what you are looking for in this spot. You know have a ton of equity against your opponent's range and this flop is more likely to hit you (and the BB) then your main villain. When action get's to you, I like checking with the intent on check raising much better than I like donk betting. When you donk bet, you force your villain to play better. It's pretty rare that you'll get two folds with a single bet on the flop. You'll get flatted a lot which puts you in a precarious spot on the turn if you don't improve and you are out of position. If you get raised, you are facing an overpair to the board or a bigger flush draw, a spot in which you have about 50% equity. If you donk and get raised, you should always be 3-betting to maximize the little fold equity that you have left. Just be prepared that 3-betting all in will get called a lot at these stack sizes as your opponents will be closer to be commited since they raise and your basically in a coin flip situation.
I usually reserve donk betting with strong draws and strong made hands for large multi-way pots (4-handed+). In a 3 way pot, the main Villain is likely to C-bet his whole range here when both BB and Hero check. Raising his c-bet will allow you to maximize both profits and fold equity as sometimes he will c-bet with air and give up to a raise. By raising the c-bet on the flop, your putting your opponent into a much tougher spot than you are by donk betting. You could be re-raising a set, a weird two pair combo, an over-pair, or a monster draw (two overs + flush, OESF draw, gut-shot+NFD).
Against that range of hands villain has 35% equity and at absolutely best is in a coin flip situation. By raising the c-bet, your much more likely to maximize your fold equity & profits, and if you get called well you're in a coin flip..

As played on the turn:
Turn ($360): 8h5h2d3d
Hero ($300): Jam or check. Both options are fine.
Villain (covers): bets $120
Hero: just call here your opponent is allowing you the proper odds to continue, might as well take advantage of that. Call with the intention on folding any river where you don't improve to a flush or straight and jamming when you do.

An alternate line on the turn you could possibly take. You could jam here representating a set+ and will occasionally get a fold from 99 or maybe TT, JJ is probably never folding. If you shove and get called by an overpair you'll win 31.25% of the time, you need 32% to break even. It's slightly a losing play to shove here if you never get a fold. Probably close to break even or slightly in the positive once you account for your Fold equity.

Hand 2 is the interesting one. You got a lot of good advice on why it was such a mess postflop.

You shouldn't be playing 2/5 yet if you think you can ever shove that river profitably.

@rm81
Yes, I see that now. I did think about it, but was too chicken. My (incorrect) reasoning was effective stacks are too deep to jam, and I'd look like a maniac out of his depth.

@eholeing
Yes, taking shots at 2/5 isn't smart. A little bit of context - I had bought in for $250 in a 1/2 game and won the $460 when the game broke. I drew the 5 of clubs, and was waiting for a table as others drew higher. I figured I was risking just my initial $250 from my bankroll. Yes, it still isn't smart. I'm going to grind away at the 1/2 for a year or so until I have 30+ buyins for the 2/5.

@mikko
"Hand 1: Your getting stacked by full house. So you need to bet and hope to get called by worse queens." - Absolutely right, and altered my thinking.

"Hand 2: Train wreck on everystreet.
Preflop: Fold, you don't play well enough postflop to make this hand profitable."

Couldn't agree more. I admit I'm a little inexperienced to be playing this hand OOP at this level. I like to think I'm more creative in general than my opponents, and so I did what I did, but it was bad play all around.

"River: What does shipping accomplish. Start with check and hope to save $180. If he bets, think we have to fold, which is ridiculous after putting in 75% of our starting stack."

If I check here then I will fold to a bet in this spot. I'm clearly beat. If it goes check/check, then I'm not winning either. My only hope was that the diamond would be a scare card, and villain would make a bad fold after putting in a lot of his stack. I usually avoid getting into wars like this but I couldn't help myself.

@jtm1208
Thank you for the detailed response. I agree with all of it. All the people behind me were really tight, and so I wanted to be a little looser with my starting hands. I was never going to limp into the pot at a 2/5 game with any hand, hence the raise from MP. Consider it an experiment if you will, which ended badly money wise, but I learnt a lot by thinking about my decisions in every spot, and all the talk here. Had the heart or the straight come on the river, I'd have been lucky and won a huge pot but learnt nothing. Still 2/5 isn't the place to be experimenting.

I think the consensus is to check/shove the flop or check/call the flop and jam the river. Thinking about it now, checking the flop allows me more leeway in the hand. Donk betting the flop (a limit holdem/omaha carryover leak) forced villain to put more money into the hand, and forced me to become more committed to playing this aggressively.

Again, thanks for the thought processes from the villain's perspective.

@The Rumor
Yes, I'm not playing 2/5 again for a bit until I get the nuances.