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Fancy Play Syndrome 2 Fancy Play Syndrome 2

05-04-2013 , 07:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyVee
AA was the big reason I almost called. But why would AA bet so small on the turn and then spaz the river?

This afternoon on a run it occurred to me that a villain with a basic understanding of cbetting might play AT this way, despite whiffing the flop four ways. Then he thinks he caught his miracle runner-runner and shoves with glee. If I had thought of this possibility I would have tilted toward calling.
But, also can't we consider King/Jack with the King of Clubs. Villain perceives you to have Ace Jack. Villain bets small on the turn to draw to his second Nut Flush, and instead hits two pair to beat your perceived range. You never defined your hand here, if you raised the turn and he still calls and shoves the river I understand the fold. But, I have seen passive players raise King Jack under the gun as well. They've gotten bored of folding all their rags, and wake up with two broadway cards. I just think this is one of those rare instances against this player type were a call is okay. I'm not saying I'm happy about it, but our hand is grossly under represented, and our hand strength is too good. By, the way did you ever post the results? I'm so curious if villain ever showed his hand. Did you fold?
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05-04-2013 , 09:05 AM
That is a good analysis too. I think KJ UTG would usually be a limp from this guy, and he wasn't bored, but it's still something that goes in the mix.

I folded and he showed AJ. I know, right?
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05-04-2013 , 10:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyVee
That is a good analysis too. I think KJ UTG would usually be a limp from this guy, and he wasn't bored, but it's still something that goes in the mix.

I folded and he showed AJ. I know, right?
Don't feel bad about folding. If your not folding the best hand sometimes your calling too much. I've always felt this hand was a call due to your perceived range, but I don't think folding is terrible. It's just one hand, and you can't focus on the results.
Fancy Play Syndrome 2 Quote
05-04-2013 , 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyVee
Villain in this hand is an old guy, lively, enjoying the game, playing a lot of hands and playing them passively. Enjoys the role of table bluffcatcher, calling with marginal value. $280. Has raised preflop maybe twice in two hours.
I agree with you that this type of player is never raising KJ pre flop. I would say AJ is the bottom of his raising range. As played I would say its a crying call and this is my reasoning. The flop Cbet takes 1010 out of his range obviously so that really does not help us much. His turn bet is where I gather the most information. I expect V to be betting much bigger with JJ, QQ and overpairs. River shove feels more like a bluff than a made hand from this type of player.

I would raise the turn and shove when he checks. He enjoys bluff catching so he is calling with much worse. Just my opinion.
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05-04-2013 , 03:26 PM
By the river he has to know he is beat, but he may feel that he just has too much invested to not try to win the pot the only way he can.

The river club is a reason for villian to slow down, but it is also a scare card. Plus, he reasonably may be thinking, intuitively, speed = confidence=big hand = best way to fool hero.

Also, if he has a boat, then he may, intuitively, think that he needs to bet slowly and ponder the situation to fool hero.

I am not saying this is the only explanation for his actions, but it is certainly a reasonable explanation. There is dead money and hero has a big hand and a reasonable explanation why villain is beat here.

Call.
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