This is my first Post and I want some feedback on how to handle a pretty typical situation in Live low stake NL game. Usually this occurs when you are in the blinds or on the button and decide to LIMP into the pot.

So for this game here are my reads:
Seat1 Big Blind: Competent Tight Player $150 stack. Will be very tidy post flop, however he has increased his VPIP as the remaining players are very unaggressive.
Seat2: OUT.
Seat3: Hero limps QTo $220 stack. I have a supposedly smart aggressive image. who seldom limps in EP. Two of the players here recognise me as a winner in the club room. I have shown some big preflop raises ($20). 1 of which I flopped a set an won a big pot ...another where I bet fold a dry board.
Seat4: OUT.
Seat5: Limps $120 stack. Passive abc middle age women. very nice person but is not able to evaluate her hand strength correctly. Will never reraise draws.
Seat6: Limps $200 stack. Weak tight abc women, although she is able to bet her good hands. Will never reraise draws.
Seat7: Limps $260 stack. Old asian man, been playing very solidly, not getting into trouble and always looking to trap big hands. Betting aggressively when obvious signs of weakness.
Seat8: folds.
Seat9 Small blind $60 stack: calls.

Goes 6 ways $(7 pot mutiway after rake & jackpot drop)
Flop is T75r

I decide to check.

Seat5 bets $6.
Seat6 calls $6.
Seat7 folds.
Seat9 folds.
Seat1 calls $6.

I feel there all pretty weak, so I reraise to $22 to fold out their equity. And I think the ladies will give up nearly there entire range on turn unless it is a set. (I could be optimistic here). But they hardly ever have 2 pair here.

They fold, but seat 1 calls. he is the most competent post flop player here. so I don't like that, but I think his hand includes mostly draws since I am repping a set or strong TPTK.

Turn is a 6h, i think still rainbow. (Pot is $63)
he checks. and I check behind because i didn want to see middling cards. his range should most likely be any of the open enders....and possibly a 2 weak 2 pair and NUT gut shot J9. (he is not a loose post flop player).

I check here because pot is rather large and the turn card didn't improve the situation. (please comment if this is strategically good or bad).

the river comes a K offsuit.....and he checks again.
For the same reasons as the turn I feel the thin value isn't worth it due to how the cards run out so I check behind.

Is my strategy for this hand flawed?

I am thinking that in a more Looser action game, I might not make this raise because I would expect potentially 2-3 callers.
I will release hand results if I got feedback.

Thanks

Welcome to the forum, OP. Thanks for reading the how to format a hand quid before posting. This is much easier to follow than most first posts.

I would not play QTo in early position basically ever, even if I knew the table conditions were such that a raise later was very unlikely. I just fold. It's pretty, but it almost never flops the nuts, and playing medium-strength hands post-flop OOP on boards that likely hit other calling ranges just sucks.

As played, flop is a bet/fold for me pretty much always. I like to lead TPMK from early position (which usually means I was in the BB, so saw a "free" flop) on dry boards like this as 1) It is very vulnerable if the flop checks through, 2) We can get value from worse tens, 89, maybe even some 7s, 3) Most of these hands are not giving us value if/when the board gets scarier. 4) Any raise is almost always a better hand, and we can make an easy fold without guessing games.

As played, you are highly overplaying your hand. C/R TPMK is pretty bad. All of your reasons for the raise (not a re-raise, as no one has raised, just bet and called) would apply to a hand with no show-down value as well as the hand you actually have.

Check back turn is good, but not because you "didn't want to see middling cards" Even an extreme blank should be checked back, as you will almost never get value from hands you beat and there are few draws available to charge.

River is the same issue, you're not getting value from anything you beat, and you have showdown value so no reason to bluff. Check back is the right play.

The problems here are pre (somewhat, mostly because playing TPMK OOP sucks) and flop, which was very bad, imo.

1. Fold Q10 UTG. I thought you meant limping in BTN or maybe CO when 3+ players have limped. When you open limp Q10, you're the fish.

OTF, I'd lead out for $10. (In my games these types of overbets are common in limped pot flops). Our kicker is OK & we want value. I hate the re-raise. We're only getting called by 2p+, or the rare T which will likely be outkicked. We never want to fold out worse hands. If we do, they can't pay us off.

Turn check is just weak as all hell, but necessary because we need to shut down after this guy calls our 2bet OOP. We did the smart thing and got a cheap, cheap showdown. Check folding would have been the optimal line after flop, which you took, because BB's call suggest his range crushes us.


The most awful thing about this is the pf play though. I'd recommend solidifying your foundation if you want to be profitable. I'm no pro, but have been around the block and can tell that your though-processes could be optimized. You should ask yourself what your flop actions will be pending certain cards before you act pf. OTF, plan out how you want to proceed until the river. It seems to me that in the moment of the flop, you felt weak and checked, then decided to turn your hand into a bluff once you realized you missed the opportunity to bet. Also, when saying that villain looked weak, have a solid reason for believing that, instead of just a feeling.

I do not mean to sound mean. I've been in the game for years and still have plenty of leaks. When I was in your position, my mind was all over the place as well. If you dedicate yourself to study and humility, you will prevail.

Thanks for the quick replies. I don't have many further questions, but I'll add that my limp in EP-MP is around the 5% frequency....and mostly situational dependant. But I understand the concept of limping early is very bad without hugely implied odds from many weaker players.. And I'd closely never do this online.


I've done this many times over in low stakes games...and often it is a combo of..somorbody flopping a big hand, or a donkey continues ....or they fold and I take it down. I'm not advocating its a good play postflop. Merely trying to figure out what is the best play....or best options. I.e abc. Versus risky play.

Too early for results, OP. I edited them out. Let it wait until tomorrow.

The big thing about raising small bets with multiple calls on dry boards because they often fold is: why waste TP on it? Two napkins could make the same play. Your C/Rs on dry boards are much better of being polarized, so that you can get straight-forward value out of your medium strength hands.

I would think it's better to do it with a hand that has some equity like bottom or middle pair. Wouldn't you want to bluff raise with the hand in your folding range that has the most equity against the opponents' perceived ranges?

Well, yes. The napkins comment was hyperbole to drive home the point (which was, why waste a value hand? in case that wasn't clear). Having some equity to fall back on is a plus, and having a hand that beats the draws (assuming any are possible) in their continuing range is a plus, as you have not only equity but also SDV.

is there a problem if i have 3+ callers....who have a range of any pair any Straight draw, backdoor draws?
Or will the explicit odds of so many callers more than make up for the times we get out drawn.

AND

How will we play this hand differently if we are in the BTN?
I feel like if we are in SB or BB....we can easily get raised of our hand if we lead & don't have good info on the players in the table. However I suppose in this situation, we have an easy fold if we do get raised.

Fold pre
As played, bet flop

Cmon man. "Smart aggressive image?" Nothing about this hand was smart or aggressive.

yeah this is 1 individual hand where I happen to limp QT. I was more interested in how to play the hand postflop. Since raising or limping QT on button is a common scenario.

Welcome. Fold preflop. QTo in early position is not a good hand. Not playing the hand to begin with will stop top pair weak kicker out of position from being a 'familiar situation'.

Bet to flop. Get money in the limped pot since you don't have a preflop raiser to check to. Fold out some garbage and get value from draws/worse hands. A check-raise is a complete overplay. You'll usually only get called by better hands.

Checking the hand down is fine.

But you didn't play this in LP so that affects this hand. Position remains relevant postflop.

Note: No disrespect, seriously, but I really have a hard time believing you are a "winner in the club room" if you are raising 10x and in a "familiar situation" in a hand when you are limping QTo UTG.

Note: This post is a bit hard to read. Post hands per this thread: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...sting-1031043/

PF: Why in the heck-bob are we limping QTo UTG? This hand should be insta-folded in this position.

F (12): If the hand is 6-ways, how is the pot $7? They've already taken $5 out? OMG! SPR is varied from ~4.5 to ~9 to ~17. As played, why do you think everyone is "pretty weak" and why in the heck are we check-raising 3 players with TPWK (Note: your kicker is not "good". A good "kicker" would be KQ)? Our hand is not good enough for a check-raise; we don't want to play a big pot with this hand and that's what we are setting up.

T (68): As played, I'm fine checking.

R (68): I'm fine checking the river.

I read weakness, because the initial bettor bet $6 and the others only called her small bet. The initial bettor had a tendency to bet larger when having a hand like AT in this flop. Both callers had did not have any incentive to not raise a better hand here.

And the reason why I limped the QT, was basically

1) I had just won a decent pot.
2) there was no threat from the players that I would get raised by a weaker hand
3) players were soft, I would likely be able to take down my fair share of pots.
4) I had not limped often in EP in this session

realize that winning in $1/$2 and $1/$3 game does not require me to be a very good or great poker player.

This is a non-reason however you parse it. TBH it sounds like 'I had money to piss away, so that's what I did.'

But it's probably someone has a stronger hand, which they now get to play vs. you, while having the benefit of position. Weaker hands also get implied odds to overlimp and see a cheap flop against you. This reason is terrible.

Not preflop, so you're relying on your postflop skills. Multiway and OOP, with a RIO hand. This is bad unless you enjoy a tremendous edge. I don't believe that you do.

This is a non-reason. Bad play is bad, it doesn't become good just because you don't do it much. I don't fold AA pre, maybe I should mix it up and start folding it occasionally? Wait no, that would be terrible.

Okay got it preflop fold no matter the situation. Caller had 98o for a turned Nut straight.

Not no matter the situation, but given the stack sizes here, yes.