Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Facing Pot Sized River Shove Facing Pot Sized River Shove

04-12-2018 , 11:38 AM
1/2 casino game. I am MAWG probably viewed as tight/competent. Have stolen a few pots recently without showing so the gig may about to be up.

V1 is young Asian guy. Playing well, not getting out of line ($400).
V2 is young white guy. Hasn't been active at the table. Played 2 or 3 hands in an hour but hasn't shown down. Opened and cbet or just folded on flops. Very quiet in a somewhat lively/talkative table ($230).

Utg limps, MP limps, V2 limps, Hero ($500) limps K8cc on BTN (usually a fold or raise for me, but I am limping more as stack gets deeper), V1 in SB completes, BB checks.

6 to the flop of K56 with one club ($11).
V1 leads for $10, UTG calls, V2 calls, H calls on BTN.

Turn is Tc. ($46) Checks to me. Decide to bet big to put max pressure on draws and maybe fold out better kings. I make it $55. Is this good thinking in this spot? V1 tank folds (later told me he had 56 but didn't want to call big bet on river. V2 calls.

River is another king. ($155) V2 shoves for a little more than pot. Hero?

My reasons for folding:
1 guy hasnt gotten out of line.
2 could easily have better king.

Reasons for calling:
1 I have trips
2 kinda getting the idea that players on that side of table were talking about me and maybe thought I was getting out of line
3 if I was him and I had trips I would have jammed turn

Appreciate y'alls feedback in advance...
Facing Pot Sized River Shove Quote
04-12-2018 , 11:47 AM
Check the turn. Your bet is basically a bluff that is unlikely to work against 3 opponents, although wow at getting V1 of 56. A check/raise here would suck. Just check back, hit the 9 on the river and stack 78o.

As played, I think I can find a hero fold here. V2 has a king here a lot, and your kicker is now one of the worst. Your image does matter a bit, but I still think he has a big hand here most of the time.

As for limping, in general as stacks get deeper, we are going to want to raise more in position, not limp. At 100bb depth this is fine to play as a limp, but you can do more raising pre, especially OTB here.
Facing Pot Sized River Shove Quote
04-12-2018 , 12:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koss
Check the turn. Your bet is basically a bluff that is unlikely to work against 3 opponents, although wow at getting V1 of 56. A check/raise here would suck. Just check back, hit the 9 on the river and stack 78o.

As played, I think I can find a hero fold here. V2 has a king here a lot, and your kicker is now one of the worst. Your image does matter a bit, but I still think he has a big hand here most of the time.

As for limping, in general as stacks get deeper, we are going to want to raise more in position, not limp. At 100bb depth this is fine to play as a limp, but you can do more raising pre, especially OTB here.
Curious whether or not you think V1 should checkraise on the turn? I need to find some aggro lines to take post flop and I kinda wondered about his spot. I like to lead when I flop 2 pair+ in the bb. Is checkraising the turn with bottom 2 a good play? I think he was worried about better hands out there since it was multiway.

As for him folding, he was kinda nitty, but I was playing with a lot of confidence and I think he read me as super strong. I may have been a lil excited that I turned some equity so he may have just picked up on that. But yeah, I was shocked too. He raises and I would fold but with flush draw I don't think I could fold if V2 c/r.
Facing Pot Sized River Shove Quote
04-12-2018 , 01:56 PM
I like raise pre. Your hand plays better with less rather than more players because you never know where you are when you hit a king OTF with 5 other players in the hand. Plus you get a bunch of Ax and a few better kings out of the way.

I usually just check behind OTT. Your hand has SDV and has the opportunity to improve, but I'm not sure better is going to fold to your bet (although clearly better did fold).

The river is probably a hero fold. The call OTT from V2 indicates a hand that's probably not a draw (you have 8c, so it makes it less likely he has a club/straight combo draw). The ship OTR is a better king most of the time.

With 56 OTT, I probably still bet for value, although it's thin and I'm not liking being up against 3 other people. But it's most likely still the best hand since nobody raised the flop and straight draws missed the turn, unless somebody hit KT.
Facing Pot Sized River Shove Quote
04-12-2018 , 02:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spirit123
I like raise pre. Your hand plays better with less rather than more players because you never know where you are when you hit a king OTF with 5 other players in the hand. Plus you get a bunch of Ax and a few better kings out of the way.

I usually just check behind OTT. Your hand has SDV and has the opportunity to improve, but I'm not sure better is going to fold to your bet (although clearly better did fold).

The river is probably a hero fold. The call OTT from V2 indicates a hand that's probably not a draw (you have 8c, so it makes it less likely he has a club/straight combo draw). The ship OTR is a better king most of the time.

With 56 OTT, I probably still bet for value, although it's thin and I'm not liking being up against 3 other people. But it's most likely still the best hand since nobody raised the flop and straight draws missed the turn, unless somebody hit KT.
So that's 2 for raising pre.

I guess my thinking in these spots is I don't like raising K8s and K9s because I see a lot of limps with AK and KQ in my games. So I usually limp behind with weak Ace and King suited. Id usually check behind on flops and see if someone starts betting turn.

I'm more likely to raise my suited connectors and gappers otb.

I guess it's a comfort thing for me but looks like it isn't standard for most.
Facing Pot Sized River Shove Quote
04-12-2018 , 03:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CactusJack
Decide to bet big to put max pressure on draws and maybe fold out better kings. I make it $55. Is this good thinking in this spot?
I don't like this logic for betting. Why try to fold out better kings? You can certainly bluff with worse hands here instead. If you think a value bet is too thin, just check - your hand is too strong to turn into a bluff.

On the river your hand is a bluff catcher - you bet two streets and yet tight villain is shoving into you. Looks like an easy fold to me. A tight player doesn't just start blasting huge bluffs because you "maybe were getting out of line" - it sounds like you were talking yourself into calling
Facing Pot Sized River Shove Quote
04-12-2018 , 04:43 PM
I actually like the line for the most part (although I think turn could have been a little smaller to accomplish the same thing). BUT once V shoves into you cold otr, your trips are no good. Don't go broke in a limped pot, and this spot is a great way to lose a stack with the second best hand.

Assuming you folded river, WP hand.
Facing Pot Sized River Shove Quote
04-12-2018 , 04:53 PM
Call me a nit, but after the bet on the flop and two calls I'm letting this go because of kicker problems.

As played, after V2 check calls your big bet on the turn and jams in your face on the K river I let this go.
Facing Pot Sized River Shove Quote
04-12-2018 , 05:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DormantShark
I actually like the line for the most part (although I think turn could have been a little smaller to accomplish the same thing). BUT once V shoves into you cold otr, your trips are no good. Don't go broke in a limped pot, and this spot is a great way to lose a stack with the second best hand.

Assuming you folded river, WP hand.
When I call flop and bet turn what does my hand look like? I'm assuming a weak King or a combo draw maybe?
Facing Pot Sized River Shove Quote
04-12-2018 , 11:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NebDanger
Call me a nit, but after the bet on the flop and two calls I'm letting this go because of kicker problems.

As played, after V2 check calls your big bet on the turn and jams in your face on the K river I let this go.
TPWK is not a great hand against fourway action, yessir
Facing Pot Sized River Shove Quote
04-12-2018 , 11:49 PM
Without the backdoor draws I agree flop is a fold, but a lot of turn cards improve this hand.
Facing Pot Sized River Shove Quote
04-13-2018 , 05:45 AM
Thanks for all of the thoughts about this hand...

I guess I really butchered it from beginning to end.

In real time I tanked for quite a bit. What it came down to was I didn't think this guy was limping AK or KQ and if he had TT he would have jammed turn. Thought it was unlikely he had 55 or 66 because I didn't think he would check turn. I really thought the only value hand he was repping was KT.

So I call, he looks at me in disbelief and says I'm good. I show and he mucks. He left the table right after so I am not sure about why he went off. I'm guessing he had 34 or maybe 79 of clubs. Maybe AX of clubs.

Anyway, I knew I didnt play the hand well. Hated my turn bet but just couldn't fold the river.
Facing Pot Sized River Shove Quote

      
m