Stacks ~1400

Straddle on
-CO raises to 35 (Older Asian guy, this was at the start of the session but I noticed from the rest of the session he was a solid player. Capable of bluffing and also picked off a few river bluffs later that day. Opens most reasonable hands down to medium suited gappers)
-B and SB call
-Hero makes it 155 in the BB with AQ
-CO, B and SB call. 4 to the flop

Flop(630) - Q103
-SB checks, Hero bets 190
-CO and B call

Turn(1200) - 8
-Hero checks
-CO jams and B folds
-Hero?

Would you bet more on the flop 4 way here? Also, how would you play the turn from the start and what would you do as played facing the jam?

Cheers

Eh, I guess the 1/3rd PSB OTF, check turn line really can/should induce from a better V a lot. It’s thin but I think you’re right at the call limit w/AQ. Hard to see many hands you’re beat by taking this line (except maybe J9, but I would normally expect J9 to 1/3-1/2 PSB OTT). Tough spot 300 BB deep w/ TPTK. Frankly I can live with either action depending on factors. V being Asian makes me want to call.

Pre flop is too small. I would go $250. 5x + x per each limper is good OOP.

I really like flop sizing.

I would probably just shove the turn considering we have less than a PSB, but I could also get behind betting $400. As played, I would fold. It's super nitty and super exploitable, but the population has zero bluffs here, I just don't see this with KQ/QJ. Best case scenario is we're chopping. I put CO on QQ, TT, 33, and AQ. We don't have the right price versus that range.

Way too small preflop. 210 would be my minimum facing an open and a call from the btn and sb.

I would not bet more on the flop

I would call the jam. We can easily be looking at the same hand and the only two pair combos I can see this guy showing up with are QTs ones, of which there are 2. The small preflop sizing could’ve left some T8s though.

This is another problem with preflop: we made it too small and his range is less defined. If we stuck 230 in his face, we could feel a lot better that he doesn’t have a hand like T8s or J9s, and we might have folded out 33 too.

I will say your flop size is exactly what you should be doing. Like when you 3 bet pre and bet into 3 players on this board, your range is going to be strong. Betting small gives you a chance to win right now with a hand like AJs without having to risk a ton more money. And obviously it sets up this situation where we can have give ups and V is incentivized to jam a draw.

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Thanks guys.

Agreed, way too small pre flop. I usually follow the same 4.5-5x + a bit for each caller. First time playing again after 3-4 months so a bit of a brainfart on my part.

I ended up making a tight fold on the turn. In hindsight and after reading your guys' posts, I think I should be calling it off for the price I'm getting. On the other hand, I don't think he has too many random bluff combos or value hands I can beat here, (AQ, KQ and maybe QJ sometimes), so maybe it's not so terrible to fold either.

Bigger pre. I think I unhappily call off here. You're kinda underrepped here and I think he can show up with the same hand or worse sometimes.

I'd rather x/c the flop then cbet. We've got to instill the fear that TP is always part of our range. Also helps avoid a catastrophe like having to call it off on the turn.

May I ask, what are you trying to accomplish with your flop bet? One thing I’ve seen a lot at these limits is mindless c-betting. You have one pair on a dynamic board with 3 other players, 2 of which have position on you. SPR leaves you no room to operate, really. I’d check, hope it checks through and turn is a blank.
As played, fold.

Grunch:
Pre is way too small, 200 minimum.

Flop: we can actually size up a bit here on this texture. We mostly should bet small vs multiple opponents, but this specific flop hits their ranges pretty hard AND is unlikely to be beating us at the same time. I'd bet 300-400 for value/protection. Also sets up a more comfortable turn jam.

Turn: I think i prefer a bet ~300/fold line here.
AP, really sucky spot, we are somewhere near the bottom of our range, we block KQ and QJ and unblock J9/TT/33. There isn't that many value combo's, but he also doesn't have many natural bluffs available. He likely only has suited versions of KJ, and most players don't bluff hands like JT or T9 when checked to. He also called 2nd to act with two players behind.

Seems like a fold, even if he's overvalueing KQ sometimes.

Post-grunch:
^Yeah i don't like x/calling flop at all. We can get significant value on this flop, fold out decent equity at the same time, 4 handed people will usually bet tighter and more passive, and we have much better hands to protect our checking range, like AA or QQ.

I disagree with the flop lead. Being out of position if one calls, the others may as well. Only a larger size bet can thin the field, but only gets calls from hands that crush you. I think heads up you lead this flop, but multi-way there are too many sets and two that have already outdrawn you, though you do block some QT combos. There are also the J9 and KJ combos.

One thing this thread has taught me is be careful raising OOP, especially when you're at a loose table that will generate a lot of callers.

When I'm in the blinds at a loose table, I'm looking to get heads up or folds with AQ...or I'll just limp to disguise my hand. So I'd bet much bigger or just call.

Here you get an excellent flop on a medium dry board, and are in no mans land. Hard to make money when you're constantly in positions like this.

You really shouldn’t be looking to miss value to avoid spots. We just need better game plans.

Like when you have AK or AQ, these are very good hands. But they aren’t the nuts, and even if some goober opened with 53s, that’s going to win 40% of the time. So really, with the majority of our 3 bet range, we want to be able to generate folds. So if our raise isn’t generating folds, that’s fine: we raise bigger and can generate folds. And get more value when ahead.

The real problem is the flop. We only have 2 bets left to get all in, in all practicality. And we clearly went in without much of a game plan because we took a very poor line of betting flop and check folding turn. This is a clear situation where our opponent will define his hand strength way more if we check than if we bet, too; he won’t be checking a big hand on this flop due to the presence of many possible high equity draws.

Like Lex said, we don’t bet to see where we are at. We use our brains.


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Facing over a 1k shove, I think it’s probably a fold.

If his range is J9s, TT, AQ, and KJs we have 34% making call profitable.

Even if it’s less than a PSB though, it’s a lot of money in terms of raw dollars so idk if I see full combos of AQ betting that sizing. Yes the dollar amount shouldn’t matter in theory but it absolutely does.

It’s questionable if he always bluffs KJs, but I supposed some QTs and Tt could raise flop so maybe that cancels out. If you take AQ out of his range however we are down to 26%. I wouldn’t be shocked to see some AA or KK in his range as well.

I think calling off is fine though. It’s one of those spots where it’s close enough that you would have to be there to really know.