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Facing aggression OOP with TPTK on a damp board Facing aggression OOP with TPTK on a damp board

07-20-2013 , 11:41 AM
Game is 1/1/2 NL (Btn 1, SB1, BB 2) with a min bring in to 4, so it plays a lot like 2/4NL

Reads: Villain is late 20s Asian guy. In the hour that I'd been there, his play has been competent, perhaps a bit on LAG side, but the card room in general is full of old Asian men that love to gamble. Very active preflop, but mostly in position. I saw him semibluff turn/ value rivers where he showed down with the goods a couple of times with hands like K8 where he flopped the 8 and rivered the 4flush. I'd seen him call off a PF 4bet shove for 100 with TT. Like I said, a little LAG, but nothing really out of line.
Hero is 30ish white guy, playing very TAG. In the hour, Villain had seen me:
1. Get stacked flopping trips from the SB, CRing flop and open shipping a very dry board on the turn, only to lose to trips with better kicker.
2. Triple up (through villain) with an overpair (3bet JJ from SB, open ship 70 into ~65 pot on T92 flop). Villain had AT on that one.
3. Open raise and steal blinds and limps 2-3 times
4. Call a few raises and fold.

Stacks:
Hero: 190
Villain covers (around 450, and max buy in is 200 so he's likely up.)

Hand:
Villain (UTG+2) brings in for 4 (min bring in)
HJ calls
Hero (BB) raises to 16 with AK
Villain flats.
HJ folds.

2 players to the flop, pot is 32.

Flop is A97

Hero cbets 16.
Villain raises to 40.
Hero calls.

Turn: A975

Hero checks
Villain bets 40
Hero ??

My thoughts:
I think his range includes many hands that have me pummeled here. A9, A7, 99, 77, T8, 86. Hands he could have where I'm ahead are what, Axs, maybe AT, A8 (particularly A8), A6? There aren't many rivers that I can value bet, so I'm shipping now, calling the turn to CC the river, or folding. His line just seems so odd here. I don't see him pushing this hard with nothing but a club draw or even an A+gutshot vs a player who has shown willingness to get it in. The sizing on the turn felt so much like he was inducing. My live reads are usually pretty solid, and my gut was screaming at me to fold, so I did. If this were a hand played online, I think I check ship the turn.

What's the right play here? Bet call the flop and check shove the turn? Click back the flop for information? Was I the poster boy for weak-tight in this hand? I'm really stumped.

An interesting side note: I called out fold, and he immediately asked me "Kings?" From this, I inferred he had an ace, (he assumed I didn't have one because he knew where two of them were?). I shook my head and mucked face up to get his reaction and maybe some information. He furrowed his brow and jutted his head forward, while the whole table lost their mind that I could have let that hand go. I don't know if he couldn't believe it because he bluffed me off TPTK, or from disbelief that I didn't pay him off.

Cheers for taking the time to read.
Facing aggression OOP with TPTK on a damp board Quote
07-20-2013 , 12:11 PM
Grunch

I would probably make it bigger pre-flop, $20. Bet the flop bigger, $20-$30. As played I would probably just ship the flop. After your bet OTF you have ~$150 left? It's a slight over bet, but the board is draw heavy. If this guy is ever raising flush draws or AcXc, then shipping is good. The straddle or bring in makes it so you are essentially playing 50BB's. You played this hand for this flop. Now get it in. I would also discount sets from his range since he would have raised pre with 99 and probably 77 too. If you are including 86 in his range OTT the flop is a must ship. Also, raising for information is bad, don't do it.

As for showing your hand for info... You just gave away WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY MORE, I repeat WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY MORE info than you received. Showing your hand here is the worst thing that you did. You literally got nothing in return except another reason to scratch your head.
Facing aggression OOP with TPTK on a damp board Quote
07-20-2013 , 12:14 PM
Don't show you hand there. You give information to the whole table and get none in return.

Edit: Prof posted while I was writing I guess. He makes good points on your bet sizing mistakes.
Facing aggression OOP with TPTK on a damp board Quote
07-20-2013 , 12:50 PM
All good points, thanks. Underbetting that flop set it all in motion.

I agree, 99 is out, 77 is possible but very unlikely. I really didn't have him on any set - it was A7 or A9 that I was concerned about, but that read only crept in after the turn bet. When I saw the turn, I checked, expecting him to pot it (in which case I'd shove) or check it through, in which case I'd reevaluate based on the river. That bet sizing concerned me, though. He went from a pot size raise on the flop to 1/2 pot on turn against the tightest player at the table who raised PF from the blind and cbet an ace? Barreling with a draw on the turn just seems like such a terrible play, I have trouble playing optimally against it.

I think you're right, though. Shipping the flop is +EV, and I probably out-leveled myself.
Facing aggression OOP with TPTK on a damp board Quote
07-20-2013 , 01:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Four
I think his range includes many hands that have me pummeled here. A9, A7, 99, 77, T8, 86. Hands he could have where I'm ahead are what, Axs, maybe AT, A8 (particularly A8), A6?
This isn't a list of the villain's range. This is a list of hands that can beat you. They aren't the same.

Especially when you describe the villain as this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Four
I saw him semibluff turn/ value rivers where he showed down with the goods a couple of times with hands like K8 where he flopped the 8 and rivered the 4flush. I'd seen him call off a PF 4bet shove for 100 with TT. Like I said, a little LAG, but nothing really out of line.
You're making the same mistake that I used to make and a lot of new players make where you just assume that any raise means a monster.

I agree with ThaNEWPr0fess0r on bet sizes. I don't mind a $16 bet on the button, but when you're out of position, it definitely has to be bigger. Probably in the $20-$25 range. This flop bet should be 3/4 to pot sized. So with $32 in the pot, this bet has to be from $24-$32, especially with so many draws out there.

I think this is a flop if you get reraised, you shove. Against a villain you've seen semi-bluff, there are so many hands he could have here: club draw, straight draw, AQ, AJ, et cetera. Maybe he's putting you on the draw or a continuation bet and making a play.
Facing aggression OOP with TPTK on a damp board Quote
07-20-2013 , 01:43 PM
Against many many players a small flop raise on (and I like your term) damp board...is indicative of top pair ok kicker....(see where I'm at)....Most players will then check the turn or bet small again...big bet here means business...

My usual way of dealing with this...is check call, check check, or check call the small bet...and when the flush draw misses bomb the river...(they now can talk themselfs into you having the flush draw...)

Against this guy...its closer....I mean really he raises just to 40 hopping you will fold top pair...then hopes to get value with his big hand by betting 40 again on the turn or is he just betting 40 on the turn hopping you will fold an Ace not very likely....

I think I stay with my original plan but because he can semi bluff might talk myself into calling a big turn bet (if a Q or J does not come)... as is I call his 40 and bomb a non club river....an on a club go for thin value....
Facing aggression OOP with TPTK on a damp board Quote

      
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