Results?

I don't think they're relevant. I'd rather not post them (at least in this thread specifically) as to allow me to post future spots like this without any bias as to whether or not I did in fact run into the nuts. If you're super curious you can PM me and I'll tell you though.

They are relevant. They give us data points.

This is a situation where people don't have many data points. I have been in this situation (400bbs into the middle on the flop holding middle set) 0 times. If I read 20 threads on here and they held top set 15 of 20 times, those results would make my decision different than if they held top set 10 times and bottom set 10 times.

The closest I've been is building a 3-way $1800 pot with a shorter stack all in and the side pot $1,300 with a maniac. I had top set but there wete two straights on the board; I decided that folding to a lower set was a huge error and calling against a small straight was a small error. I called and he fortunately had middle set. (Then the board ran out T-T and I scooped it -- whoo!)

Anyways, that's the closest I got and it would lead me to call in this similar, but also different, situation.

I'd appreciate the results OP, either in a pm or in the thread.

As far as my response I the thread goes, I'd say he has 22 and 88 and the dead money makes it +EV to call like everyone else. If the board were dryer I might feel differently.

A on the river.

This. Nobody is going to completely change their analysis based on the river, but the data points are important otherwise you might as well just close your eyes after every all in and then never look at what the opponent has whether you win or lose.

?

It's about what my opponent had, not about the river.

Sorry that's what my meant not the river

Most important part is your description of V. Sounds to me like this V only puts in that much money with the stone cold nuts.

I'm completely taking draws out of his range. Overpairs are out too. 78 you block good and I also discount that. I discount 22 also bc it's not the nuts.

Your so strong but you don't have that much invested and I think too often he has 88.

Calling is correct. I'm sorry you got stacked.

Or you could look at it like this.

He slowplayed his big hand last time so this guy likes to slowplay. (A6). Now he's fast playing so he can't be super super strong.

Up to you to figure out which it is.

so you're not going to post results ITT because you want to protect your thread creating range?!?!?

this is kind of a ridiculous thought. you got ~25 responses, many people want to see results. it's nice that people help you with analyzing a decision, but as dunderstron! pointed out, how Vs think helps the rest of the community form general population reads, which in turn help the community play better.

This. I can't understand how posting results affects your future posts.

Lol at thread creating range.

OP, I would say it's pretty poor posting etiquette not to give results, particularly given that you did get many good responses. The community is exactly that, a community. They all helped you, toss them a bone.

I could have sworn years ago (or maybe it was a different forum) it was actually frowned upon to post results as to prevent bias. lol I might be wrong tho.

Always gatta balance my ranges

Okay, results:

As you all guessed, V showed up with 88. I asked him at the end of the session and he said he would also shove 22 (but nothing else).

I think it used to be frowned upon, but people realized that seeing what the other player has helps us figure out how they play. I find it extremely useful. I used to hate the old "results don't matter" mentality. They don't matter during hand discussion, but they do at the end of discussion.

It's frowned on to post results when the discussion is still ongoing. Once it's died down, it's nice to get the data points so we can check our hand-reading.

Sorry about the cooler, OP, but definitely an interesting spot.

I didn't care about the money as much as I genuinely thought I had made a bad call against this specific V. Despite what some have said regarding me tanking/flipping my hand over, I was seriously about to fold.

Oh well, lost biggest pot of my life at 1/2 and was still up 2 buy ins for the session. Now that's a pretty solid day.

Given the description of Villain I do think this is a fold. Based on those earlier hands he seems the type that doesn't have a raise button and just peddles the nuts (even if he is somewhat loose passive preflop). When those people wake up, be careful.

Even if Vs range is only super nut hands of 22/88 and OESD/FD you're still calling, and if it's only 22/88 you're still calling, so I don't see how you can ever fold. V isn't just going to fold 22.

the thing that really stood out to me when i evaluated this hand was the HH where V tanked for 2 minutes about calling KK 100bb deep.

is a V who is going to make a big deal about stacking off PFAI 100bb deep with the 2nd best hand after tanking going to sling ~375bb in with the 3rd nuts (or less) in 10 seconds?? V isn't going to just fold 22, but is he really shoving 22 there with little to no thought?

sure, anything is possible, but in my mind that heavily discounts OESD/FD combos and 22

i think both HHs provided are very telling about V, which is great, a lot of OPs don't provide HHs which actually show anything relevant.

unless he turn over his cards and shows you two 8's. this is a snap call. every. single. time.

This is manifestly insane. Honestly if you're even thinking about 22 here it's a huge leak.

Thanks a lot for your input Johnny, I think most people are too focused on the mentality of "I'm never folding X spot" to give special circumstances real evaluation. I don't believe coolers are as unavoidable as most make it out to be, and sometimes you can turn a "I'm never folding" into a ****ing hero fold.

My final conclusion, given the HH's, would have to be that it's a breakeven call, maybe slightly winning, but given how quickly he shoved it's probably just a call that will increase my variance. I think I could have folded here and been pretty happy about it.

Keep in mind everybody that this is ONLY due to this very specific V's tendencies, anybody else who doesn't tank with KK AIPF and I'm snapping with mid set.

There is nothing wrong with posting results at the end of discussion, but be wary of the quality of such data. As many people have pointed out, there is a much higher chance of this hand being posted if he has 88 versus any other hand so people assume it is a cooler when posted. If the V has, 22, 78, or a draw, the hand is going to be much less memorable to a potential poster and likely not get a thread. Analysis of data is only as good as the data itself. The concept is succinctly refered to as GIGO (garbage in garbage out).