Bottom set on this board, in LLSNL IS the NUTS.

ah man, how sick it would have been to make the best fold of my life during the first few months of my career!

As crazy as it seems, I still think fold was correct given that this guy literally tanked 2 minutes with KK for $200 aipf.

Set over set, wow, so amazing. I'd snap call and have no bad feelings about losing a buy-in to a bigger set when V can also have AA and AKs.

Did you even read the thread, dude? It was 3.8 buy-ins, not one. And there is zero way described V has AA closing the action 4 ways OOP, much less shoves to iso with it OTF for a huge overbet.

I still think it's a call on this board, but it's not a no brainer.

Still doesn't matter, virtually dead to 3 combos and that's it. If OP is emotional about losing 4 buy-ins in a hand then he is under rolled.

Not trying to belittle OP but I think he might have been a little in over his head.

Says the guy who went on an extended "poker is all luck" rant? I mean, yeah, we all tend to be mentally under-rolled, even if we are technically running almost zero RoR, but this is kind of the pot calling the kettle black.

Set over set is a no-brainer decision for 100BBs on any board versus basically any V. On this board against this V, it's close. As I said, I still think it's a clear call, but it's definitely not a "shrug, just a cooler, not even threadworthy" hand.

I'm happy my troll post was noteworthy enough to be remembered. The only reason this hand was posted is because it was indeed a cooler and OP lost big. Sorry to OP for shrugging the hand off, I wouldn't want to be in that spot ever.

Not a noteworthy hand IMO. The only thing you should regret is wasting the whole table’s time. Surprised the table didn’t do a collective eye roll when you opened your hand.

22 is a tough spot and possibly a fold though.

lol I mean... these threads are normally started by bad nits who eventually go broke. Now I'm a mid/high stakes pro. Not a brag, but gives some insight as to the fact that maybe I was onto something when I almost folded middle set in a spot you're never supposed to fold.

It wasn't one, but two hands that he played insanely tight that gave me enough of a read to strongly consider a fold. A ridiculous fold. So, yeah, pretty noteworthy hand early on in my career. $800 seems like nothing now, sure, but its relative -- 20k jam in a 25/50 game would certainly be interesting

The more I thought about it, the reason I think it's a fold is because he would have tanked longer with 22. Had he taken at least 20-30 seconds I would have had to snap it off.

Quick shove in that spot is either the nuts or a draw that wants to appear strong. Does a nit who tanks with KK shoves a draw here?

Maybe it is a call, but if so, I would remove 22 from that range and add strong combo draws instead.

I think Johnny is probably right though. This is far more likely a case of strong means strong.

Years old thread but was gonna reply that too. His 10s tank isn't that long especially for shoving 370BB, after tanking for 2m over 100BB. Heavily shade towards nuts.

This was a multi-way pot where it went bet->raise->short stack AI

I can't fathom a mega-nit like this insta-shoving in 370bb with Axcc or T9cc, especially when there's not a strong reason to iso when the short stack is already all in and he has a very real option of simply cold-calling the 160 with plenty behind.

If he doesn't have draws, and he doesn't have overpairs, then that only leaves 87, 88, and 22.

As you mentioned, a guy who tanks 2min with KK aipf for 200 is never going to shove $800 with less than nuts in under 10 seconds.

I really think in this exact spot, with this exact info, he could only have 88 and it was correct to fold.

I'd snap this off for $20K at $25/50 too lol.

Middle set on a board like this, you just go broke. I understand the guy is nitty, but it'd probably take at least 700-800bb for me to fold this.

Never folding in a million years in this spot on this board. I agree with SABR: sometimes you just have to go broke,and its the correct thing to do everytime regardless of what they show up with.

Or as Doug Polk used to say: sometimes its simply your turn to die.

Winning poker isn't about making sick hero plays. If you think you can soul read a guy down to 3 combos I guess that's cool but it doesn't make the spot very useful or interesting to study.

Also I really do think showing your hand mid tank is a bad idea. It can actually cause some people to call clock on you sooner. It's also against the rules in most places (for good reason IMO, you can elicit reactions from players not in the hand or confuse villain and cause him to open or muck prematurely if he thinks you're tabling or open folding) so it's a bad habit to get into if you plan to play in other rooms.

I agree, it's not about that at all. It was an extremely rare situation that I felt I could "correctly" make an insane fold. That's all. Nothing more nothing less, I'm not advocating for people to try and make soul reads. If anything, I'm the person these days sigh-calling spots I think somebody isn't bluffing but knowing I have to call.

I honestly don't think it's that crazy getting away from this hand in a live setting, and I think an excellent live player could do it. "Do I have the nuts when some guy just went all-in for $750 against my $160 bet? No, so I should fold". I see set over set all the damn time, along with KK vs AA. I know they are coolers, but sometimes there are "pot to raise sizing" ratios that just say "nuts". Pretty much no one in LSSNL folds PPs preflop unless the action is a little crazy. Just like cold 4bets from the blinds from nits, it's like the most face up **** ever.

And again, I really do think it all comes down to the V. If V is a whacko who you know will make crazy plays with draws, it's a slam dunk call. If V is a tight reserved male who virtually never semi-bluffs...well...

FWIW Lex Veldhuis mocks “chat pros” for a reason. Lot of Statler and Waldorf’s in the poker community who act like they’re in the know, but can’t beat 1/3 themselves.

Not a dig to anyone in this thread, just a reminder that even though a play may not be Doug Polk approved, doesn’t mean it’s not actually going to produce the best result against significantly weaker competition.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'd need a better read about the guy's uber-nittiness to fold here. Bottom set is different but mid set nope.