Hey all, this hand is from February so my memory might be shaky on bet sizes but the action is all correct. Buy in for this 2/5 game is capped at 300.

V1: Late 20s white guy. He's been opening far too wide of a range pre and I've abused him for it once or twice. He actually had solid post flop skills but he just doesn't know how to fold pre. Stack $400

V2: Old man coffee. He's been sitting on my side of the table for a few hours and hasn't put more than $200 into the pot without a very good reason to do so. We've been chatting and having a good time so he may be inclined to soft play me. Earlier in the night he 4bet me all in pre and gave me the "I have AA lel" face so I folded. He ofc showed AA. Stack $900

Hero: Mid 20s. Table is very exploitable (LOTS LOTS LOTS of fold equity to be had) so my image might be kinda weird. Villains probably see me as one of those internet kids getting too aggro. Stack $750

V1 opens UTG to $15
Hero looks down at AK in MP and bumps it to $35
V2 flats on the BTN, V1 calls.

Flop A73

V1 checks, Hero bets $75, V2 calls, V1 calls

Turn is 8
V1 checks, hero checks, V2 bets $125
V1 folds, Hero calls

River bricks and it goes check/check

I'm not sure which street I misplayed, but at the time I felt like I missed a lot of value somewhere along the line.

So what is your line on this turn? What about if turn is a ?
Same question for river lines.

i did not read the spoiler, if you did post results, i would remove them -- let the thread run its course before posting results so people dont skew their posts based on results

i would 3! more pre , $45

im not sure what kind of 3! flatting range v2 has OTB but your 3! is quite small, so its only 7bb to go and stacks are deep, so he can be pretty wide here with position. I imagine all pp's call , SC's call, AK, as well as some hands we have dominated like AQs/AJs/KQs ,

obviously this flop is great for us, $75 seems a good size. When both v's flat this wet board, it seems likely our hand is the nuts (no v's have a set). Unless V2 flatted 77 with the intention of keeping V1 in the hand, which isn't very characteristic of OMC's who would likely c/r a set here.

i think we should be barreling this turn though. It would definitely suck getting c/r'd here but i just dont see villain having a hand like A8 so the 8 is essentially a complete brick.

pot is over 300 and i think we should be betting 175-200 ott.

also, what was the river card please

Why did you check the turn? Did you think omc had a weak A and didnt want to blow him off of it? There's value in a check/call turn BET river line with tptk against abc players like omc. But you goofed by not betting the river. I think I just barrel the turn myself though given that the board is a tad drawy, and set up a nice river value bet if it bricks.

I like this line... The only thing you missed was the river bet. With that line, you can make a giant river bet and have it get called by lots of worse stuff. What does your hand look like to them: Flush draw that fired the flop, wanted to see the river to try to hit it, and missed. So now your taking a big stab at it. 300 on the river will get called by one pair.

Grunch

V has good post flop skills.
And is spewey pre.

I would first off raise more pre.
(V tendencies calls wider. Instant value)

With top top and drawing to the nutters against an omc calling seems fine.

However on the river Im taking a standard bet/fold line. He'll tell you if he has a set.

Lead out for $150. It's small but it works.
Always and ONLY omc raising with better
(You could even donk $100 here with same results and get a crying call more often)

3-bet is too small vs a short stack sticky preflop raiser.

Checking turn is a mistake. You cannot reasonably expect an OMC to bet his AK/AQ/AJ hands. You lose too much value. He won't often have two pairs, and will probably not always cold call your 3-bet with 33/77. If he has QJs or JTs it sucks. V1 can have all draws and dominated Ax, you need value before you get an action killer/drawn out for free.

A check call donk river line vs an OMC isn't very good because they don't value bet thinly OTT, esp multiway in 3-bet pots. You just end up vs their stronger part of the range and miss value vs their weak part.

Your read on V1 is too vague, and I don't know how good his postflop is when he's overcalling in this spot.

I disagree.


If the turn is a diamond, just bet-bet-bet and hope someone makes a mistake. You are most likely not getting value from 1 pair even if you bet/check/bet when the flush comes in.

V1 is OMC and he flatted this flop when we have the A and K of diamonds? He just basically flipped his cards face up saying 'I have an ace!' The weakest part of his range here is 2 pair.

Standard OMC knows basic hand reading and will call river bets vs. flush draws with top pair. Bet thin and bet thin big.
On heads up river bets you are getting 1:1 on the money you put in. If he calls 100 with Ax 90% of the time and calls 300 50% of the time, you are making more money every time you bet 300.

2pair is in the strong part of his range clearly, though it is a small part of it.

I'm saying the turn check is bad, not a river donk given a turn check.
OMC is not always betting AJ/AQ/AK OTT but is unlikely to fold them.

Strong, weak, same thing lol. Mistype...

I'd say they are betting AJ+ a large portion of the time here.

If we bet the turn, OMC only continues with A10+ and his weak suited aces fold.

Then what happens when we fire the river? OMC may actually fold his A10+.

I think we are only getting 2 streets max on this board vs. his range. A bet/check/bet line hits his whole range. A bet/bet/bet gets more betting done, however your betsizes have to be smaller in order to have him call.

125 on the turn and 250 on the river will hit the top part of his range. = 375 vs A10+

check the turn (check behind) and 300 on the river hits his entire range = 300 vs. Ax
check the turn (he bets 125) and 300 on the river hits his entire range too (woot 3 streets). = 425 vs. Ax.


IMHO.

I would agree that turn is missed value because OMC is more likely to check back AQ/AJ hands than bet them and we are freerolling AK. I also feel like V1 has a flush draw a lot with the overcall so having turn get checked through kinda sucks against that. I like a $140 bet on the turn. As played I would lead/fold small on the river, like $200.

Pre seems small esp against someone who doesn't like to fold. Make it $45-$50 here.

Flop seems good for the size of the pot.

Turn I'd be again. There's very few two pairs hands in their range, and both would 4bet you with AA.

So they range is likely AT-AK (AT not so much likey) 77/33, but 77/33 likely do some raising, so they will tell you where they are. I'd go around half pot, maybe $180 on the turn.

If we bet the turn though, we have to keep in mind we are setting the pot up to play for stacks. With one caller, there will be $710 in the pot, and we will have $460 left behind. So, if either V shoves (if V1 shoves it's a snap call given his stack size) but if V 2 shoves, we can be put in a weird spot getting 12:4.5 on a call, but not loving our 1 pair hand.

Even still, I think we have far too much equity vs their range, and don't really want to stop betting here. So yeah, I think lead the turn and check/call the river is best as opposed to check/call the turn and lead the river.

Bigger pre.

Bet the turn. I literally can't think of one hand OMC can have that beats you. He's folding lower pairs and 4betting aces pre.

You want to get value from many worse hands in v1s range + build the pot for when you hit. If OMC folds and I get ck called by v1 I'm value betting pretty much every river.

3 bet more pre

I'm with Andees, I don't think an OMC is cold calling a 3bet preflop with A7 or 77. More likely AK,AQ,TT+ and OP shows OMC has already 4bet aces, plus there's only one combo left come flop. I think you are smashing OMC's range. V1 who knows, if he's opening wide 77 and A7 could be in his range.

Checking may be a good idea on the turn if V1 could be slowplaying 2pair or a set? idk but haven't seen anyone discuss that, only that we shouldn't check turn because of OMC, but V1 is still in the hand.

When you check turn, OMC bets and V1 folds, this is a dream scenario I think. Why not raise and then shove river? I'd be happy playing for stacks at this point vs OMC

3b more, bet all the streets