Long time reader, first time hand poster:

VILLAIN: $400

HERO: $475 (casino regular), seems to call a lot but never raises)

HERO DEALT 3h3D

UTG: Raises 10 ,UTG +1 (VILLAIN): CALLS 10, BUTTON: CALLS 10, SB (HERO): CALLS, BB:FOLD
POTSIZE: $40

FLOP: 2d2h3d

HERO BETS $30, UTG FOLDS,VILLAIN CALLS $30, BUTTON FOLDS
POT SIZE: $100
TURN: 5d

HERO BETS $75, VILLAIN CALLS
POT SIZE: $250
RIVER: 10c

HERO BETS $200 VILLAIN TANKS....

Thoughts on river bet?

Don't post results. AP, river bet is fine.

I wouldn't have bet flop. We want flush draws to get there and leading is very strong. We are repping boats or a strong flush and folding out a lot of value when we lead three streets.

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I would pot it on every street to get the stacks in on the river faster. Had you bet pot on flop and turn villain would have about a 3/4 pot sized stack left. It would be hard to fold anything he got there with. AP go all in on the river. Villains line looks very strong and he should be calling anything.

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Getting better than 3:1 already and with a small raise that might entice the BB to also come along for the ride to pad our immediate odds (and get us closer to our required IO), I'm also setmining preflop. We will have to be aware of some RIO issues depending on who we end up against / stack sizes / their willingness to play for stacks postflop, and being OOP will hurt us in this regards, but I'm still fine with preflop.

I like our flop donk. Flush draws / straight draws / overpairs will all start paying off, lets start building a pot. At this point only one combo ahead of us, so fairly coolerish if we're behind.

One of the main draws got there on the turn so I'm cool with continuing to bet and hopefully get paid off. I like our bigger sized bets on the flop/turn as good hands will have a difficult time folding this early for relatively smallish $$$ amounts.

Would need reads on the villain to really know the optimum size. Against someone bad enough to not be able to fold a flush on a paired board you could argue for a shove. Against a nittier opponent who could make some hero folds at this point you'll have to go smaller than $200. Also depends on whether he has any knowledge of how we play. I'd probably go $180 in unknown situations unless I've picked up on some traits that indicate whether this is his first rodeo or not.

Gnicehandoverall,imoG

I'd check the 3-high flop in a raised pot and let others provide action. Over cards in the PFR range may continue and all pps will call. Leading into 3 opponents is very, very strong and may prompt folds.

As played, maybe $15 flop/40% PSB turn. Once opponent just calls turn, less likely they have flushed, so I'd size down river.

Instead of commenting on this hand (which I think is well-played overall except I might have bet a bit less on the river), I'm going to relate this thread to a different one I recently saw, where Hero had raised the button with 96s and got exactly the same flop as this one, and Villain led into him.

In that thread, many people wanted to bluff-raise flop or turn because they thought Villain's lead looked weak.

Yet in this thread, there are people who think Hero shouldn't bet because a lead looks too strong--even though it's exactly the same flop.

I concede that these may have been different people making the dual arguments, but we cannot have it both ways. If you don't want to lead this flop with a boat, you should be wanting to fold a 9-high flush draw on the flop in the other hand.

Not sure about the other thread, but donk leading into a 4way pot is strong. Betting turn and river is almost never a triple barrel bluff. So villains have to wonder what Hero has that they can beat, since Hero will almost never have air here.

As far as bluffs, Ad5x that can triple barrel here. 5x4d might bet flop and then barrel when they pick up a big draw OTT, but they will peel some % of turns rather than barreling.

For value, villain might think Hero is bad enough to take this line with 2x, but I doubt it. That leaves flushes and 55/33/22 for boats and quads. Because of Hero's line, villain has to fold all of his PP's (except 22/TT/55 of course), all of his 2x, and some will be able to find a fold with flushes. The only thing left to target here is Axdd. If we had checked flop we could have represented a wider range that villain can beat with flushes. Instead we have no bluffs here and villain can fold the majority of his range.

Big difference is other hand was HU And button vs limper I believe so donking there is a lot different than 4 ways

Your river bet sizing is dependent also on his image of you.

If people think you can degen out at any time, bigger works. If they don’t think, or you’re an old guy—I like it.


Only thing I change is a smaller flip bet—only because I want to keep more speculative stupid crap in and look weaker overall. Like I’d have bet 15 or 20.


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In general, ranges should always be stronger when we bet into 3 people than when we bet into one. I just take issue with the idea that people don't like leading in this hand because they think it looks too strong. That's not really a good reason not to lead. Honestly, no matter what we do, if we aren't folding, then at some point it either looks strong or we are missing value by allowing people to check back.

If people are afraid to bet their strong hands strong because it looks strong, then they end up playing backwards poker.

That is true, I like to think of my game as TAG with switching it up every few orbits to keep my game level. Villian and I have never played before but hands she saw me showdown with were AA (which Villain and I got in preflop. She had QQ and sucked a Q on the river.), KK, AKs, and JQs.

I was thinking of maybe making it $20 but the 1/3 NL at Harrah's is very good action usually.

+1 At this particular game most of the time you will get a call or two with weak holdings from terrible regs.

Absolutely we should lead this flop. It's not likely to have hit the PFR, and if the flop checks through it's an absolute disaster. We're 4 ways so PFR is less likely to just bluff into the field with total air. Any players with a SD or FD or overpair will continue, and we're not going to get much against other holdings anyway.

I like it as played. Nice hand.

There was an UTG raise, followed by a call from +1. A typical EP opening range has a good amount of pps from a combo perspective. Those will clearly continue on this texture.

He either has a 2 or doesn't nicely played on all streets

I like a flop c/r given that utg is the pfr -- there are two players behind who can stab at it if utg checks (utg has overpairs/fds he will bet some of the time too). I'd prefer leading if the button had raised.

I'd size down river given his range will have a lot more overpairs than nut flushes. I'd probably bet $125 instead, unless you know villain can't fold an overpair.

How many combos of overpairs does UTG have versus how many combos of unpaired Broadway type hands, and that's without even putting things like middle SC in his range?

Hint: he's unpaired more often than he's paired.

His unpaired hands aren't betting, leading to the flop likely checking through. His paired hands are continuing and possibly even raising.

His unpaired hands aren't betting? Really? Apparently no villains are capable of a cbet here.

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They're sure as hell not doing it often in a 4way pot.

Typical UTG raising range is: 88+, AJs+, KQs, AQo+. 42 pp combos and 44 non-pp combos. Pretty close. No read on PFR, so putting other hands (e.g SCS) in his range is baseless.

I strongly disagree that a typical LLSNL villain opens 88-TT UTG. They are much more likely to open ATs, KJs, QJs ("they look so pretty"), which isn't in your range either.

Me too. I suppose we can debate about river sizing, but that is more gameflow dependent than anything so you size best based on that.