Hero is 23 but looks 18. Youngest by at least 15 years. Been very active. raising pots late pos. and c-betting almost everything. started with 200 and now have 300. I have only shown down one hand vs a short stack's all in. I was behind but caught on the turn, only for about 20bb's so i don't think it's too important but ya never know.

villain is new to the table. i have seen one hand where he limped pre b/b/c with TP J8o and lost to J9.

hero sb 300- 88

3 limps to villain in co who limps.
hero completes the sb
bb checks

flop: $12 568

hero leads $15
all fold to villain who calls $15

Turn: $42 Q no other heart on board

hero bets $30
villain min raises $60

What should hero be doing here. obviously we're afraid of 79 and 47 which is definately in his limping range. But other hands like Aqss, q5 q6, 66, 55, 56 are there as well. Like the title, I know we shouldn't be going broke here but i felt like there are a lot of hands that would stack off lighter than me. I would post results but didn't think they mattered all too much. Just looking for some insight. What do you think? Thoughts and comments appreciated. thanks

Misread OP. Oops.

(do you have the 8 of spades?)

Per the J8 hand, villain seems pretty straight forward. I doubt he is raising a draw (which is the main reason you would want to hurry up so much). He is much more weighted toward 2pair or made straight. As such, I don't think you should shove OTT.

.. however, I am probably going broke on this board anyways despite it being a limped pot.

The action probably would play out the same if you 3bet to $150 to set up river shove (he would shove OTT with straight and you would be exactly priced into calling with 10 outs). Any 3-bet smaller and fold is just knocking yourself off your equity...

So perhaps just flat and then bet/call river. (or if you fill up, bet/all in river)

To clarify - the shove gets him to fold all 2 pair hands, call all sets and straights... which is still probably +EV given the oversetting possibility, but given that villain is more likely weighted towards 2pairs and straights given pre-flop and flop line, you are eliminating a huge portion of +EV river money by shoving OTT.

(again though, I am going all the way to the felt with this hand anyways)

villain's stack? the Q doesn't really change anything from the flop and he didn't raise you there, so I'm discounting the flopped straight because you would think he'd raise that to protect against the flush draw. 2 pr is looking pretty likely... Q6, Q5. I'd be inclined to flat his min raise and lead out about $100 on any non spade or paired board prepared to get it in if he pushes.

I suppose it's possible he sandbagged with the flopped straight, but it would be a very unusual play with the spades out there, unless he has exactly 79 of spades. Even still.. he's missed a street of value by not charging the other draws.

but whaddo i know... people do the darndest things at the low stakes.

1. He has position on exactly 0 players at the table.
2. Limping from sb w 88 @ 1/2 here is completely fine (as is limping on B or raising in pos)

sorry. villain started with about 190-200. I did'nt have position. And yes i do have the 8 of spades. I originally posted this stuff but it took too long to submit and made me redo. Thanks

Sorry, I misread the OP. I thought he was in the cutoff. Withdrawing my feedback.

Yeah Def a shove here.

I assumed V covered you since it was not mentioned. With his stack this small, stop thinking about results - top set should get all chips in at some point.

If 74 is in villains preflop range, then I think he is calling a turn shove with 2pair a good amount of the time?

He also could have Qx of spades here.

Yeah I don't think 2p always folds here. Shove can look like semi bluff on FD. Shove non spade turn. I lead out here on spade turn. Check looks so scared that's he'll prob bet big and then you have a tougher decision. If you lead and are raised then there's more clarity. On non spade turn I think 2p calls a lot in a 1/2 actually. And if he's limping 74 type hands he prob not laying down 2p with a Q.

It would be pretty risky here for him to check made straight on flop so I'm not as worried about that. I've even seen AQ call turn shoves here. Take his chips!

Think about what is in his range after the flop, i automatically take out AQss i doubt hes going to over limp a hand like that, Q5,Q6 are also gone because hes not calling an overbet otf with those hands. At this level a min raise by a straight forward player is almost always the nuts as black and white as this sounds. I would call the bet OTT and check/fold river. If he has a set otf i doubt hes just going to flat there hes going to raise it because there are so many cards that kill the action the only things that are left are really 74 or 79. You have to know when to let go of hands like this and this is the perfect example. NEVER NEVER shove turn btw.

This is LOL bad on the part of Villain.

Pot is $42, Hero bets $30, Villain raises to $60. Pot to Hero is now $132 with $30 to call. 4.4:1. Hero is getting the odds to draw to all sorts of stuff.

While the results don't matter it is going to be interesting to see what Villain actually had to justify this atrocious play on the turn.

My usual guess for min-raise is TPWK, but obviously Villain's range here on the turn given action is wider.

I don't mind the flat turn, bet/call river line, but I think it is suboptimal because when Villain doesn't have the nut draw (i.e. a flush draw), then you lose too much value when the draw comes in and Villain shuts down. Hero still has 10 outs to crush the nutz, so let's continue to try to extract max value.

So, limped pot be damned, with top-set and 150bb (or less), you should be betting the flop to get stacks in. $15 is fine only because you expect a few callers. $20 would have been better.

Turn bet should have been at least 5/4 pot. 2p is not folding. "11+ out draws" are not folding.

Shove river.

Also, raise pre some of the time.

shove here. V thinks he has the best hand. You answered your own question, you win against 6 hands lose against 2. Your set beats more of his "I think Im winning" range. Which might have other hands you beat including a weirdly played aa kk. You never know at live low stakes with idiots but its probably unlikely. Suppose a spade hits that might kill action as well.He's bad he'll call with 2 pair imo.


Fist pump shove, too bad if its a bb.

Beat: because its on here it prolly is.

Preflop looks obvious and I love the slight overbet on the flop. On the turn, our goal is to play for stacks, so as long as our bet can do that I'm ok with it, but I'd probaby normally bet closer to pot.

Villain's stack? I think anything up to 100bbs is a pretty easy stack off, but after that *maybe* it gets a little more difficult.

The Villain is obviously loose (having limped J8o OOP before) every single two pair hands show up in his range here, imo. Add in the under sets, the fact that no draws completed on the turn, and the fact that QQ probably would have raised preflop or flop, and we're crushing his range. I'm re-raising and pretty happy about playing for 150bb stacks.

FWIW, the "don't-go-broke-in-a-limped-pot" is usually reserved for weaker hands. Middle set on the turn that is currently the 4th nuts doesn't typically apply.

Gpracticesuckingoutontheriverifbehind,imoG

I disagree here, so many 1/2 players look at the bet relative to their stack not the pot size so I'm not surprised when a small pair calls. I wasn't saying he had AQ either I'm just saying TPTK calls turn shove many times in these games and I also see this hand call the flop with A high too. Why the heck would you NEVER shove the turn!?! If you are scared or 2 hands that make a straight here with you still having 10 outs then that's a big leak IMO. I also disagree that min raise is always the nuts here. Why wouldn't he have raised the flop? Why give a FD such good odds? I think villains play is horrible making it quite possible he has several things other than a straight.