I've experienced (and also read) that donk bets by bad players in online games are often a huge giveaway that they have a bad pair or worse. However, in live games I've noticed that this doesn't usually doesn't seem to be the case. What I've experienced live is that the fish mentality is "I HAZ GOOD HAND, I BET". What have you all seen live compared to online, and what adjustments do you make to these nonsensical bets?

I find donk bets are often weak hands live too.

Consider why a player would want to donk bet in the first place. It may be they have some sort of hand but are afraid of someone drawing out, it may be they are afraid to call a big bet or want to set a cheap price to draw, it may be they have a strong hand and are afraid everyone else will just check behind. If you think about all the hands and all the situations those possibilities cover, most of the time it is going to be a weak hand.

I think the most telling part is the sizing. It's not unusual in live poker to see absurdly small donk bets, like 1/4 pot. Such bets are decent hands so rarely that you can generally raise any two cards in any situation and expect a fold. Whereas if suppose someone check/calls a Q84r flop and turn is a 9 bringing a flush draw and they now donk nearly pot-sized, that's a lot stronger.

Makes sense, maybe my sample is just too small, but I've generally seen that they (keep in mind this is 1/2) often have top pair weak kicker here, and are willing to marry it and call whatever raises are thrown at them. I've seen different online, but of course have played tons more hands online, so idk. Time travels so slowly live.

Hey, if that's the case that's even better. Players always calling down after turning their hand face up? You shouldn't need help exploiting that situation.

I think you have to separate the two concepts.

Smallish donk bet = made weak hand

Calling station = player who can't get away from a made weak hand

You can't bluff a calling station but you can take him (and his made weak hand) to value town.

I generally agree. At the same time, I sometimes see weak players donk very small with a very strong hand. Here, they are in fear of a fold. Mostly, thought, small donk = weak made hand.

Grunch,

This depends on the sizing of the donk bet plus a lot of other factors. Ultimately it's Villain dependent. I could stereotype but I don't know what stakes you play. I suggest paying attention and seeing what people showdown in certain situations when they donk.
Hint: at low stakes it's usually TPmehK, but like I said there's too many variables to read this type of action with a specific hand history and villain profile.

Edit: If you come from an online background I'd first suggest you forget all the stereotypes you have. Just watch people and assume they can't adjust their strat until proven otherwise. 1/2 players are mostly just playing their cards.
Lastly I want to remind you that online edges are small and fast while live edges are big and slow. There's no HUD here. You have to process the info yourself.

tl/dr, it's read dependent. Is your opponent a weak player, or a strong player? Consider.

1/2nl, stacks 200 eff

Hero (tough, aggressive player) UTG limps with 55
MP (nit) raises 12
LP (loose passive fish) calls 12
Hero calls 12

3 players. Flop (36) Q75

Hero?


I would submit that a strong player would consider donking here. The nit will probably like this flop. With a restricted opening range of say TT+,KQ+ we will get a ton of value from any portion of his range he would likely bet on this flop, and are really only vulnerable to one holding. We could check/raise, figuring nit calls with anything he would bet. But. There is a calling station OTB who also likewise probably likes this wet board. He often calls a bet, not sure if he hangs around with weaker holdings (eg, 7x) in the face of a c/r. High probability of hand checking through with a good portion of nit's range eg AK,JJ. The nit is either going to pay us off or he isn't, but we don't want to miss the opportunity of getting value from the calling station even if a bet folds out nit's JJ.

Against a weak player, a donk bet could be:
- betting top pair for value
- betting a weak holding as a "feeler bet"
- donk bluff, as a reaction to a strong player with a high cbet frequency
- a monster
Inasmuch as most of a weak player's donking range is weak, a raise should be considered.

Against a strong player, I think you will see a mixture of draws and hands like this. Some caution would be in order.

Interesting point here. I would agree, generally the worse the player the more likely you will see this set slow played, while a stronger player will start building a pot for value as described in your post.

That said, a combination of a weaker player and a donk bet often lines up with a weak made hand capped at TPWK.

^not so much building a pot, more like not missing a street of value.

If my holding (my hole cards + boards) is likely to increase exponentially in value, I build a pot. If my holding is static, I just try to value bet while I can.

This is a dynamic board, but my hand isn't all that likely to improve (it could, but I'm not expecting it to at this point). I may not wish to bet for value on a later street, for example if a flush card hits. So this is "getting it in while I'm good" rather than "building a pot."

Given the fact that this board is so dynamic, missing a street of value is a disaster.

However, a skilled player sitting on something like 8h9h may well choose to start building a pot early, and that's why this kind of flop is very hazardous to play against a tough player who donks out.

It's a stark choice. Against a fish, I raise pretty much every time. Against a tough player, that raise will get shoved down my throat, pretty much every time.

Yep. I agree. Bad choice of words on my part. Thanks for the clarification.

In my games, players tend to be passive with weak hands, so a donk bet into the preflop raiser in a multi-way pot usually means they can beat an overpair and don't want to give a free card to draws. They are more willing to give a free card when they have a set, so it is usually two pair that is afraid of a flush or straight draw and hates going for a check-raise because of combination of the possibility it gets checked through plus usually losing with two pair in big pots.

Totally player dependent.

Old man last night would bet pot or more every time he hit too pair regardless of situation.

Other times its some one tryin to see where they're at. Some psychology involved.

I think donking the Flop can mean quite a bit more than donking the Turn.

Donking the Turn usually has sizing tells associated with it. With small being a blocker/pot control bet to try and see the River on their terms with the ability ditcate the action on the River.

I find that players who may typically c-bet a high percentage of the time, but yet let the Turn check through if weak or missed can have the Turn donk used against them to steal pots or create value going to the River if the OR wants to continue.

Donking the Flop can be for protection or value against overly aggressive opponents who have position. If the table is fairly passive donking may be necessary to create value when OOP.

Not having a ton of online experience I can't relate, but live donking is a tool in any 'regs' game (even nits). GL

i agree with a lot of comments so far. I do think that board texture and and amount of players is really important too. Although it is player specific, even if I have not seen a villain donk top pair or mp a lot of villains make it obvious. With just 1 v, if I open utg and lp caller donks on the J23r, 99% of the time its 44-TT. Where as when the average donking villain donks on the A23, they are almost never donking with 44-KK and they always have Ax. In my experience its pretty rare. I havent played insane hours live but in about 300ish hours in recent memory, I can count the amount of times I have been donked in an iso raised pot on one hand.

Donk betting is really player dependent. Against OMCs and rec-fish, I find donks are usually TPWK or small pocket pair or a draw. In fact, raising donk bets can show an auto profit in a lot of sub 5$ blind games. Some players like to bet to 'see where they're at' with a donk bet, so raise them and they fold. Against strong thinking players, conversely, I think donk betting can be a show of strength.

I'm a proponent of donk betting with your monsters, like flopped sets or straights on boards that are likely to hit your opponents perceived range. When you have a big hand, you need to build a pot, and check raising is often too strong. Donking out, your opponents will think you're weak, and will often raise you, helping get their chips in the middle for you. Flushes are a little trickier, especially small flopped flushes, because it's hard to stand the heat if you get raised and it's far too easy for people to fold non-flush cards losing you value.

Generally don't be too scared of donk bets in 1/2 or 1/3 games, especially if you hold an over pair to the board. This is a dream situation. Raise for fat value on disconnected badugi boards when donked into by rec-fish. If they want to continue with TPWK let them, occasionally you'll get sucked out on, but it's rarely a thing.

Really bad/new players donk betting is usually the sign of a really strong hand. It's funny in a way that the new players are actually playing their hands pretty optimally on accident.

Typical bad regs (majority of player pool) donking out is usally a sign of weakness with a weak top pair or a draw.

Great, winning players donking out usually is a sign of strength (sets, trips, flushes) but they could also be balancing their range with draws too.