example: flop 457r turn 6 river 8

IP, raised pot, rainbow, with villain calling bets on flop and turn, and we're playing the board. i sometimes bet like 3x pot after villain checks river. pretty standard freeroll? for more sophisticated players i'll make a weirdly sized but less bluffy looking bet like 1 or 1.5x pot.

thoughts?

Free rolling until he flips over 97.

Its pretty rare that I get to the river and am confident enough its a chop spot to make the bluff, but I have done it. I cannprobably count the times on one hand. I find a 3/4 pot bet gets the job done.

I feel like most recs aren’t protecting their checking range in this spot but I could be wrong. I tried it a couple nights ago, I overbet shoved maybe 160 into 110 and a fairly nitty guy called for the chop so I’m 0/1. I had a pretty aggressive image though. I don’t think it’s going to get through very often, but probably more often than the times you get called by better.

ya i find somewhat experienced villains usually squirm call and then mark you as a dick wart when you chop. possibly best reserved for inexperienced/scared money

I don’t 3x bet for a chop but I will often 3x PSB with 9 10 and occasionally with 9x.

The obvious caveat is when they hold a higher/nut straight card(s) and you've inversely value bet yourself.

Otherwise, I think anytime you're giving your opponent resistance as to what's in the middle, you're better off; just because you both have nothing doesn't mean they're entitled to half.

This is where things like skill and position come into play; even if it only works to get them to fold one out of ten times, you still end up with more than you would have by otherwise checking it back.

Understanding my opponents also comes into play here, e.g. if my opponent had made a 2-3x raise from early position and the board ended up a 2-6 straight, excluding other factors of play through the hand, I find it hard to put my opponent on any 7 (LAGish 78s, 79s, or even 7Ts? totally exclude A7s for all but the donks of donks), and if I don't see them raising 77 there, then I think I'm more likely to make the play, especially if I can give them reason to think I might have initially called with a 7, say a CO or BTN cold call of the smallish raise.

Sam - also keep in mind that you might get 1/10 to fold but you might also get raised off 1/10 or more after raising. Just something to keep in mind when EV’ing a raise here.

ya an extension of this concept is to repop people that do it to you. another interesting inference is the overbet potential of having the higher straights when there is a straight on board.

Played a hand a month or two ago where I raised a straddle with ATcc, guy defends, flop was junk like 695r with BDFD, villan x/c, turn was 8cc v x/c's again, river 7x he x I bet 2x pot he snapped and was disgusted that we didn't chop.

Few hands later I opened T7dd he called from blinds and x/c then x/r turn on a 77xx flop and rage quit when I stacked him. Poor guy

are people gonna gay jam the river on a chop pot? yes. Are they also going to do it with the nuts? Yes

It's important the action makes your bluff look credible (like we actually have combos in our range that beats the chop) or you just get snapped off except by the most WT players IME.

I think a more predictable chop spot is a board like AK232 where the action goes

MP limp, HJ limp, we iso raise OTB with A5 and just MP calls. MP x/c flop, x/c turn. We're almost always chopping here but he might put me on AA KK AK and fold if I bomb river.

The problem with boards like 34567 straight is the action rarely makes it plausible that you actually have a straight that can beat the board. But if villain is a nit raising UTG and I flat OTB and action goes b/c b/c x (maybe I'm calling with a FD or turned set or w/e) then I might bomb river. BUT a runout like 36745 where the river actually completes hands in my range (88, 98s, 87s, A8s, T8s) is infinitely preferable regardless what I actually have. On 34567 a big river bet just looks like nothing, on 45768 all we can really rep is 99 and 98s and 97s, but on 36745 it's actually scary as we have many straight combos, and the OESD getting there is particularly scary.

ya i don't disagree with any of that Shai