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Do you keep low suited connectors in your SB 3bet range vs late opens? Do you keep low suited connectors in your SB 3bet range vs late opens?

11-21-2017 , 02:35 AM
Light 3bets from the blinds. 65s 76s

Should I even be concerned with this at 2/5?
Do you keep low suited connectors in your SB 3bet range vs late opens? Quote
11-21-2017 , 04:50 AM
There are so many factors to consider, that it's hard to sum up in a succinct response (for me at least). For now, don't 3b these hands. I like to consider villain tendencies and stack sizes first in these spots. I recommend searching the Best of Link stickied to the front page of this forum. You'll find good reads as well a link to Concepts of the Month. There's also the Micro-Small Full Ring forum under the No Limit Hold'em tab in the left column of 2+2. They also have great stickied content and tend to delve deeper into the specifics of what you're asking about. It's designed for online play, but there's a trove of info applicable to the fundamentals of live play.

Where I'm currently at w/ restealling low sc:

Under 150-200bb, almost never. (under ~70bb 99.9% never)

Look for thinking players with fold buttons opening from CO & BTN.

Don't vs people who never open raise or loose, stationy players.

How often do they fold to c-bets OTF?

How often do they stack off light post flop? (You wanna be fairly deep at a min. to consider 3b for this reason)

Do we have a loose aggro image ourselves that'll yield more calls than we'd like or have been card-dead and look like a nit?

Ultimately, this is only applicable in games where you need some balance to your range. There should be a few people adapting to your play at the table for that to be necessary. If people are calling your re-steals super light, you might want to expand your 3b range with more value hands; good starters, but not premiums, ATs+/A2-5s/KQs... etc.
Do you keep low suited connectors in your SB 3bet range vs late opens? Quote
11-21-2017 , 05:26 AM
^I’d also like to know what type of player the BB is if we’re in the SB
Do you keep low suited connectors in your SB 3bet range vs late opens? Quote
11-21-2017 , 07:59 AM
wow, that's balls out doing that, i follow the Ed Miller A5s reraise but that would be a tough game indeed.
Do you keep low suited connectors in your SB 3bet range vs late opens? Quote
11-21-2017 , 10:31 AM
I 3 bet SCs from the blinds now and then but only when its very obvious that the guy raising in LP is abusing his position and raising limpers constantly. Its better if you've been semi card dead so your image is pretty tight.

I did it yesterday with 98s. He called my 3 bet and I got a pretty good flop. JT3 with a backdoor FD. He folded to my Cbet.
Do you keep low suited connectors in your SB 3bet range vs late opens? Quote
11-21-2017 , 11:11 AM
First realize that there is a really big difference between 56s and 98s. So a generic statement like "should we be 3betting suited connectors" is just way too wide of a question.

Also, most folks are putting the cart before the horse. Do you 3bet 77? QJs? AJo? Or do you flat these? Most people flat them from the sb, and this is burning money. Start 3betting more linear. When you get a good feel for it you can expand to JTs-98s type hands.

I generally dont go lower than that bc live players do not fold to 3bets (which is why we 3bet linear).
Do you keep low suited connectors in your SB 3bet range vs late opens? Quote
11-21-2017 , 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia
First realize that there is a really big difference between 56s and 98s. So a generic statement like "should we be 3betting suited connectors" is just way too wide of a question.

Also, most folks are putting the cart before the horse. Do you 3bet 77? QJs? AJo? Or do you flat these? Most people flat them from the sb, and this is burning money. Start 3betting more linear. When you get a good feel for it you can expand to JTs-98s type hands.

I generally dont go lower than that bc live players do not fold to 3bets (which is why we 3bet linear).
Im not 100% sure I agree with that. Can you give examples why? Do you think we will very many more pots with TP when its an 9 or 8 as opposed to a 5 or 6....in a 3 bet pot?
Do you keep low suited connectors in your SB 3bet range vs late opens? Quote
11-21-2017 , 02:00 PM
There are large database samples out there and they generally show 89s to be ~neutral ev. I think this is the collective (-ev early and +ev late). It starts to go down fast from there. 56s is -ev.

There are many ways to look at it and this is just one high level view. For example, 56s is a +ev open otb exluding some heavily raked game or a tilting shortstacker.

But using the ev charts of hands over 100 million hand samples is one way to start building your ranges.

Other tools like flopzilla show the different ways 98 is largely different from 56, mainly in flopability yes...and yes top pair with 98 is easier to make than top pair with 56, and it does make a difference.

Finally, its a simple way of range constructing. If we 3b 56s+,66+AJo+ and we think its too wide (it is in most live poker environments), then the very first hands we should be trimming are the lower cards. This is especially true vs villains that call too much, which is what we face in live poker.
Do you keep low suited connectors in your SB 3bet range vs late opens? Quote
11-21-2017 , 04:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr
Im not 100% sure I agree with that. Can you give examples why? Do you think we will very many more pots with TP when its an 9 or 8 as opposed to a 5 or 6....in a 3 bet pot?
To add to what Ava said, I think it comes down to having the bottom end of straight vs top. Also 2p (&boat) type hands can get counterfeited much easier with 65 vs 98.
Do you keep low suited connectors in your SB 3bet range vs late opens? Quote
11-21-2017 , 04:45 PM
Rarely unless the late raiser is either (1) uber tight and will fold to any pressure on low flops or (2) a complete aggrotard spew monkey and we are deep (say 300+ blinds) where if you build a big pot and hit you likely can get paid off. But these situations are very rare, say less than 5%.
Do you keep low suited connectors in your SB 3bet range vs late opens? Quote
11-22-2017 , 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuantumSurfer
To add to what Ava said, I think it comes down to having the bottom end of straight vs top. Also 2p (&boat) type hands can get counterfeited much easier with 65 vs 98.
Im not buying this argument. The majority of the time you get counterfeited with a low 2 pair hand, the villain has a big pair. A board something like 562JJ when you have 56 and villain has KK. How does 56s get counterfeited more often than 98s? You have 2 pair and he has a big pair and the board pairs. It doesn't matter if you have you have 56s on 562JJ or you have 98s on 982JJ. I dont see how youre going to get counterfeited much easier.

Bottom end of a straight compared to top end? I guess that can happen with a 4 card straight on the board, but its going to be pretty rare to see a 789xx board when you just happened to 3 bet 56s and villain just happened to have JTs and called a 3 bet.

That's going to be a pretty rare scenario. You might not see it, ever. How often do you 3 bet 56s? And the guy happens to have 2 connecting cards that just happen to be 3 higher than yours at the same time that you both hit a straight?
Do you keep low suited connectors in your SB 3bet range vs late opens? Quote
11-22-2017 , 09:20 PM
Agree with Avarita that SB 3bet range should be linear. But if you think the LP opener is a weaker opponent than I can see throwing in some low SC 3bets. It's better than flatting and if you are comfortable enough in 3bet pots you should be able to do better than -.5bb of folding.

Expanding... in position 3bets should be more polar. Bc a lot of inbetween hands work well as calls in position.
Do you keep low suited connectors in your SB 3bet range vs late opens? Quote

      
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