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Do you fold QQ pre?

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10-31-2016 , 03:50 PM

psujohn

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,173

1/2 effective about $250 with V1. He's a reg-ish player - limps and calls way to much, not particularly aggro more on the tight side than real loose.

V1 opens to $10 from CO, V2 shorty with about $30, calls, Hero with QQ 3! to $40, V1 shoves, V2 calls

Do we give V1 KK+,AK and fold or do we think he's wide enough that we can call? Keep in mind we haven't seen him 3 bet let alone 4 bet previously.

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10-31-2016 , 03:53 PM

WereBeer

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 10,700

125bb effective, tight villain who we have not seen 3bet before...seems like an easy fold to me.

The action itself looks more like AK than AA/KK but I'm just giving this guy credit, in fact I fold QQ here readless, let alone with this particular read.

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10-31-2016 , 04:02 PM

Avaritia

Confirmed 2500 hour haver

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 12,248

Yea fold is fine.

The trick in these spots is to play around with pro poker tools and work up to a calling point. Or work down to a folding point. Etc.

Also always be aware that just because he show's up with AK in one instance, it doesn't necessarily make your fold incorrect.

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

287,667,072 trials (Exhaustive)

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
QQ	39.86%	114,030,168	1,252,788
KK, AA, AK	60.14%	172,384,116	1,252,788

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

174,655,008 trials (Exhaustive)

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
QQ	28.52%	44,539,404	10,559,760
KK, AA, AsKs, AdKd, AcKc, AhKh, QQ	71.48%	119,555,844	10,559,760

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10-31-2016 , 05:21 PM

johnny_on_the_spot

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 11,608

Pretty easy fold IMO.

The only thing that would make me think about this is the ship from 40 => 250. Bad players do this with AK, but since it's a protected pot, you can see the cards. Once you know you can adjust accordingly

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10-31-2016 , 05:47 PM

Pony_law

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 242

Yea just fold and make sure to pay attention to both hands which should get shown. If he got frisky with a small pocket pair or a weaker A make a note of it for next time.

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10-31-2016 , 06:23 PM

Playbig2000

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 11,322

fold. Do you really think he might be doing this with JJ? (I don't eve think AK will do this too often at all).

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11-01-2016 , 04:13 PM

Jarretman

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 2,937

3bet to $20 pre (or whatever the max amount that will reopen the action)so when it gets back around to the short stack and he shoves you can re raise

As played fold is fine.

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11-01-2016 , 04:17 PM

hitchens97

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 2,451

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarretman

3bet to $20 pre (or whatever the max amount that will reopen the action)so when it gets back around to the short stack and he shoves you can re raise

As played fold is fine.

If he doesn't flat. He already flatted with 25% of his stack. I've seen plenty of shorties flat half their stack too.

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11-01-2016 , 05:33 PM

Jarretman

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 2,937

There's a chance he flats again. Oh well if does. I think there's a much higher chance he would ship.

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11-01-2016 , 06:23 PM

#10

Ragequit99

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 2,575

I see players flatting KK vs the 3bet here. Against a non fish/maniac QQ is utterly crushed.V has to do this with TT+ AK for QQ to be making money and even then it's only because of the dead money. To be favourite V has to open/4bet-ship 99+ AK. I know a few short stack regs (40bb) who'll do this with 88+ AQ+ vs looser players but never vs a tight reg 75bb+ deep.

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11-01-2016 , 07:34 PM

#11

cicakman

banned

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 9,229

Sad reality if we're folding QQ for 1 buyin Co vs whatever

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11-01-2016 , 07:40 PM

#12

Starpoker

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 594

Quote:

Originally Posted by cicakman

Sad reality if we're folding QQ for 1 buyin Co vs whatever

If we are likely behind, why should we not fold? The odds are heavily against us here based on the player description. The best case scenario is AKo against this guy. The likely scenario is KK+.

Folding costs us $40
If we assume we are 30/70 here, calling costs us an average of $90ish factoring in dead money.

Folding is the smart play unless we have reason to believe he is a total maniac, which he isn't as described. We also get to see his cards since V2 called.

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11-02-2016 , 04:02 AM

#13

Ragequit99

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 2,575

Reality is sad unfortunately.

I'll adjust if he shows something other than TT+ AK. It is possible V thinks we're FOS and trying to isolate the short stack with a small pair or AQ- but I'm happy assuming he's just ABC playing hs cards for now.

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11-02-2016 , 08:57 AM

#14

javi

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 8,232

Try to get comfortable with the idea of folding the best hand in spots like these where you didnt risk much. What I mean is you are very likely behind, but on some freak occasion where you are shown AJs dont let it bother you that you made that "mistake".

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11-02-2016 , 09:12 AM

#15

6bet me

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 3,885

Easy fold with QQ.

Against unknowns 100bb deep, my stackoff range is generally {QQ+, AK}, but my stackoff range tightens up when:
1) We are more than 100bbs deep
2) Villain is tight
3) Villain is passive
4) No opportunity to pick up the pot uncontested (usually due to someone being all-in)

So in this case, 125bb deep against a tight passive opponent with only $10 uncontested money, it's an easy fold with QQ.

I'm only ever calling this shove with KK+

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11-02-2016 , 12:24 PM

#16

Asylum Warden

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 261

Quote:

Originally Posted by javi

This is my lesson for the day, QFT.

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11-02-2016 , 01:28 PM

#17

psujohn

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,173

I fold. V1 shows AK, V2 something like 65s. Flop is AQ2, turn 2, river gives shorty the flush.

Aside from the results oriented I was giving V1 KK+, AK and didn't know if that was redic narrow or not but sounds like not specially with the read. He didn't give me any reason to rethink the read during the rest of the session.

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11-02-2016 , 10:49 PM

#18

Reubenr676

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 268

Fold unless he's tilting then call

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