Hero: 300 effective to begin hand

loose passive 1/2 game

3 limps in front , I look at AQ in the CO and raise to 15; 3 callers, I have position post, maybe larger sizing was in order here

4 way to the F: JT3 ; (60)

x'd to me and I cb 45; called by MP(loose passive player) with only 80 behind after calling

T: 7os ; (150) ; V checks to me, do you ever check this turn?

I think this is a pretty stnd shove bc I should have some FE vs some TX or weak draw, he could have weaker FD's, KQ, Q9,

his sets should be jamming this flop w / 2 diamonds out there and semi connected, so only part of his range that can call off is JX and we still have a bunch of equity for when we get called

He is very pot committed here and maybe he's just never folding any part of his range

Thoughts?

thanks for any feedback

Some really good posters here had mentioned not to bet so much on the flop with so much equity - to keep weaker hands. So, I wonder whether 2/3 flop bet is appropriate? My understanding is a $25-30 bet on the flop.

I don't know for sure, I also think a shove on the turn is better... but a check is not wrong either.

This situation comes up a lot when a person fires flop with a great draw and then the turn is a brick. Maybe the best remedy to this is to bet smaller on flop to keep 44-99 in the range , as well as Q9 and some T's. If you bet 1/2 pot on flop, you could get an extra caller, which is not the worst thing for NFdraw

Betting big on a flop this wet is certainly best. When we have a strong hand we want max value/protection and when we have a draw we want max fold equity, since everyone is always gonna put us on the draw and there are 3 opponents who potentially hit this board pretty well. And it's not like 1-2 players are gonna fold their weak draws anyway.

AP, I'm kinda ambivalent about checking or shoving, if he's folding Tx here we should definitely shove but he's a loose-passive with half a PSB behind, do we really have fold equity? We block a bunch of worse draws and this board is very favorable for a l/c range so i think i prefer a check.

I agree with most of this, I guess I do have SDV vs his draws if the river bricks, I just know he's gonna go w it if I shove turn and he has KQ(12 combos) or Q9(12 combos) or any diamonds; so I guess it's just a matter of how draw heavy is he

and yea I have basically no FE here tbh , probably a sliver of FE

I don’t think he’s folding here very often but I still like shoving, maybe he folds his weaker tens but if he’s doing that he shouldn’t be calling the flop. I like shoving here because whenever our draws come in it’s so obvious and he’s probably gonna get away from a jack fairly often. Shoving here gives us the tiny bit of FE we have and ensures we get all the chips if our draws come in. I think in the long run this has got to be the highest EV play. Never hurts to think about other lines here though.

Against a loose aggro player who’s been known to take bluffing opportunities I really like a check in position because there’s a good chance he takes a stab on the river when our draws come in and if he does we can make sure a bet goes in anyway.

Kinda hard to get both. When you have the pretty nice draw, they most likely have nothing or a made hand they aren't folding. Betting less is better, as long as you dont have an obvious pattern of betting much bigger with made hands and much less with draws.

Check flop. As played check turn. Turn card is bad for your range, you don’t get to bet in poker just because you have equity.

With a loose passive, there is no need to force the issue. They aren't going to fold anything that beats you if you shove. They're not going to put you to the test on the river. You're not getting odds to get it in. Just collect the free money if you hit and check behind if you don't on the river.

If there are observant players in the hand I'm going to bet with a standardised sizing based on board/relative-range-strength. But yeah, if I can get away with it I will size down my draws to fold only the hands that can fold and to keep it cheap against those that can't fold.

On this turn I think we have no fold equity but sometimes these fishy short stacks surprise me and fold getting silly pot odds.

For me the reason to shove turn is to get value from villain's draws - we're ahead of all of them but they can only pay us off now. If we fold a couple of TX combos it's a bonus but the reason we're not concerned is because we mostly have 15 outs against villain's 1-pair hands so betting 80 to win 230 at showdown we've almost got the implied odds anyway. We're only really concerned about 98 and any slow played sets/2-pair but they're probably overwhelmed by V's draws.

why exactly would I check the flop here?

If you've got chips, cards and it's your turn you get to bet regardless equity or anything else

Realistically you've got no fold equity 4-way on a JTX flop so betting a draw isn't achieving much. Checking back flop allows you to draw for free.

Because you need some Flush draws in your check back range and your strongest Aces are the best candidates. You should bet All FDs with no showdown value first. Otherwise you never have flushes when you check the flop which leaves you really easy to read.

Lol I hope you’re joking.

Ok fair enough, these are recreational players that do not pay attention to frequencies so I don't think that this is a great concern

and for them to know I'm betting all my FD's on the flop from one showdown if I showdown ( I mucked in this one , river bricked out ) is a stretch imo

This is certainly true HU/3way vs thinking players but I'd argue that in multiway pots on wet boards vs level 1 thinkers we should only bet for value.

We've got very little fold equity 4-way on this type of board so I'd have thought if we're going to bet any draws they should be our absolute highest equity draws and they should be draws to the nuts.

in a loose passive game, flop is a mandatory fist-pump cbet. let them call with bare gutshots, KQ, over + draw, weaker FDs, bottom pair, and who knows what.

yes against very good players and aggro regs who can put pressure on you if you cap your range on turns/rivers so you should be checking a good amount of your NFDs that have SDV, but against droolers it's an auto cbet.

specifically here i check ATdd, A2dd/A5dd/A4dd/A8dd/A9dd. Yeah it's a little backwards from theory since they dont have sdv but it's because i expect low FE on this type of board and getting raised/jammed on sucks really bad bc their raising ranges are so tight. if we're 3-way/HU to the flop and the regs are x/r flop at a high solver-frequency that has a ton of bluffs then we have a comfortable call even with A2dd/A5dd/A4dd/A8dd/A9dd which is the best hand a lot.

I agree with all of this , well said

I'm checking here. I doubt we can fold any jacks. Trying to fold a 10 held by a fish is ambitious too.

As someone said previously, he is a passive player, he is unlikely to jam any missed draws that we are ahead of OTR and we may take it down with A high.

I agree that he won't fold TX very often and won't shove his missed draws

it is tricky bc he will snap call with his inferior draws OTT which I crush

+1 to this line

Turn seems like a jam ap with only half psb remaining

Unless the fish is calling with bottom pair here, I'm jamming this turn.

Edit: I am jamming this turn no matter what.