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Do I call or jam? Do I call or jam?

07-18-2018 , 09:19 AM
A weird spot, I can't work out the merits of calling and jamming, then I possibly spazzed out the river?

1/3 live, effective stack 160ish.

So I'm on the button with Kh4h

There are four limpers and I limp the button. Should probably just fold this ended up playing as I have position and the table is relatively soft.

So theres 5 limps going to the flop.

Flop (~15) Th6h2s

Checks around, cutoff bets 15, I call everyone folds. (I have seen cutoff limp call my button raise from the cutoff with J9o so not sure if hes playing a defined range).

Turn (45) Kd.

He bets 45. I go into the tank and am thinking about the merits of jamming here.

I just dont understand the bet? Is he ever getting a T here for this sizing?

His only value is KTo, 22, 66, a very ambitious AT?

I block the king and I block the flush draw. I think if I jam hes folding a lot of worse hands, and probably only calling better? so I ultimately call.

The river (135) is an offsuit A and he puts me all in for about $100. I ultimately make the fold despite this being one of my best hands that makes it to the river as played.

Not sure why I folded here. Just feel like I'm beat too often And this player is skewed towards value, although it's possible that he has busted flush draws here. I think maybe he can play AhXh like this and value bet the river? I have no clue.

I'm gonna analyze the hand more deeply when I get home but just wondering what my thought process should be on the turn and whether my river fold is fishy as. Any other river and I'm calling obviously.

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Do I call or jam? Quote
07-18-2018 , 09:24 AM
Preflop is fine. I could get behind a raise too if we were deep and we had some confidence that we could narrow the field to 1 or 2 callers most of the time. But that's usually not the case, and we're not deep, so limping is fine.

Raise flop. There's 15BB's in the pot and no one seems particularly interested. You'll win a small pot right here, and if you don't, you have 12 outs to improve.

As played, yes jam turn.
Do I call or jam? Quote
07-18-2018 , 09:46 AM
Fold pre. Your 50bb effective so whenever you do hit a favorable flop thers not much you can do. Your putting yourself in pretty bad spots postflop by playing speculative hands with such a short stack. If you were deeper thia would be an easy overlimp/iso raise. AP jam turn fold river. On the flop hes either semi bluffing a flushdraw or hes trying to get action from flush draws with one pair/sets. Either way that A river hit his range pretty hard. I would just let him have this one. Your pretty commited but i just dont see what we beat that plays this way. T9?

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07-18-2018 , 10:18 AM
Thanks guys, yeah wouldnt normally play this preflop, but meh was a one off.

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07-18-2018 , 10:35 AM
Preflop is fine.

I'm not looking to play back at someone who potted into 4 players on flop and then potted the turn. I suspect this isn't being done with a balanced range but he is repping pretty thin and we turned an unexpected top pair. If he is barreling a flush draw then I don't see a reason to raise him off it. If he's spazzing with a ten it's the same thing.

I don't mind an occasional bluff shove here with a hand worse than a K or T. Maybe like 98 or 45 or something weaker which would compel us to want to win the hand now. K4 seems like too good of a calling hand since we are so disguised with the king.

River is pretty bad and I think we can fold now. This line is extremely strong. I thought the hand was played fine.
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07-18-2018 , 10:37 AM
I admit I missed the stack size in my first post. I didn't miss it exactly, I just had my brain calibrated to 1/2, and not 1/3. So the call is a little more borderline. Not awful though.
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07-18-2018 , 11:40 AM
I kinda routinely fold Kxs now, even on the Button. It's nitty. If you're much better than your opponents postflop then playing it (especially on the Button) is likely fine.

I also call the flop. We're only getting 2:1 and our draw might be fairly obvious, but we're hoping some others pad our odds and we'll be in position (where it is far easier to get paid off).

When someone bets a PSB on the turn when an overcard comes, unless he's quite bluffy, he's typically got a monster and is simply protecting his hand. We likely have a lot fewer outs than we think we do (plus some pretty big RIO on a lot of our outs if they are no good). I would actually fold against most opponents here unless I have a barrelly / overvaluey read.

I don't get to the river but it's even a more trivial fold since Axhh got there and there's no busted OESDs to be bluffing.

As played, I'm not convinced Kxs is going to be a profitable hand for you, even on the Button.

GcluelessNLnoobG
Do I call or jam? Quote
07-18-2018 , 11:54 AM
Often a good spot to raise turn but given the line, his sizing on this texture, and the stack depth I don’t see the merit of a raise. I’m not sure we are folding out better or getting called by worse.

Table has to be soft for me to call pre. I need a clear plan about how I can exploit them post flop.
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07-18-2018 , 11:55 AM
fold pre +1
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07-18-2018 , 12:27 PM
I agree with the many people saying they would never have gotten to the river, but I do not at all agree that the ace is a bad card for us.

The way we played this hand, it makes no sense to be worried about the ace on the river. I feel like if we were worried about being up against a nut flush draw, the right play should have been to fold the flop (or fold preflop which I would have done anyway) or, once we get there, to jam the turn.

If you think the K improves our hand to make it worthwhile to call, then you should want to call the river too. Folding the river is basically admitting that the entire hand was played poorly (which, maybe it was).
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07-18-2018 , 02:30 PM
Call turn, fold river. Jamming turn is pretty bad vs your avg villain and only makes sense if villain is a maniac calling station.
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07-18-2018 , 02:50 PM
Pre is whatever. Really depends on how often you think you can steal orphan pots because obviously just calling to "hit your hand" is probably not +EV at 53 bigs.

I would jam this turn given your stack. Probably the only way you realize your equity if the flush comes. River sucks...I like your fold there.
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07-18-2018 , 05:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsquiddy
His only value is KTo, 22, 66, a very ambitious AT?
You're projecting here which is a super common mistake people make in low stakes poker. Just because you would raise KTs, TT, JJ doesnt mean they don't have these hands in their value range. tbh he probably also has T6s, and 62s as well.

Disregarding the rest of the hand...just a point I wanted to make that you should be careful when ranging villans in this game. Their range at certain points in the hands is not going to be the same range you end up with in spots.
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