This is from a wild $2/5 game. My image is loose but extremely lucky (I've been getting hit with the deck) and multiple people have said I "can't lose." I cover everyone.

V1 is a tight player ($800) who hasn't been involved much and folded to aggression preflop. He did show one bluff earlier.

V2 is a solid reg who I have history with and knows me as a maniac bluffer ($900).

OTT:

V1 opens to $12 from UTG, 1 caller, and I 3-bet to $45 from CO with 87ss. This is marginal, but I want to take control of the action and V1 has folded to 3-bets multiple times before. V2 cold calls from SB and V1 calls.

Flop ($150): Td9s6h

Both check, hero?

I bet $75. V2 folds, V1 calls.

Turn ($300): As

V1 checks, I bet $150.

This board still isn't *extremely* wet and most of my holdings here are still 1-pair hands which don't want to see a giant pot. 1/2 pot seems about right.

V1 raises to $300. Hero?

45 is far too small pre.

Shove now, he has already put in over half his stack and will get 3.4:1 odds to call off the rest. He won't fold any value hands, such as sets and two pairs and he won't fold combodraws such as TsXs or QsJs. Since he called the flop, he should basically be calling his entire range here.

I rip now.

You can open to $12 in a 2/5 game? That's weird.

I love the creativity and balls to 3 bet 87s, but 3 betting a guy who is tight and just opened UTG is suicide and $45 is way too small as a 3 bet so preflop is really bad.

At this point it doesnt even really matter what you do. You can clearly stick it all in now but if you call the pot will be $900 and he only has $385 left. You are in position and the money is going in on the river.

I don’t get these nuts threads. What are you confused about OP in this hand? Is it because you are a maniac bluffer and never have the nuts so is confusing when you do? Play your monster hands just like your bluff hands. As soon as you start trying to switch up and get value you turn your hand face up to anyone paying attention.

The real question is could you recognize that hands like 910 are no good here and could fold it.

Not if villain has a combodraw and misses, because he will have no FE and probably knows it. IMO the only right move is to shove now.

Pre is fine, but a bit bigger is better (I don't get the $12 open in 2/5, either -- I understand it's possible, but I've never seen it done).

Flop is good. Turn is good, now shove. With your image, he should never fold. No reason to give him a "free" river, regardless.

Sorry, I messed up the blinds from another thread. The blinds are $1/3 here.

Is it really so bad? He regularly folded to 3-bets *and* flats hands as strong as QQ. I'd much rather 3-bet the guy with a fold button than a LAG, plus I wanted to take control of the hand.

Sounds like everyone wants to just shove it in here?

Shove. Based on your stack size info, V1 has a shade under $400 now and the pot is like $650ish?

Easy shove. Let's say the board pairs on the river and then he rips it. Are you folding? Of course not. Get your money in now and if he rivers a boat, so be it. Sidenote, it feels very MUBS-Y to only give Vil sets here.

Similar to the reply about 9T, that might be the only hand Vil would fold. Maybe pure FD, like KQ find a fold, but honestly if your description is accurate, he isn't floating that otf.

The stack sizes are such that shoving and getting called is a slam dunk.

What am I missing here? Is there any option aside from shoving? You have the nuts, but villain has a ton of draws in his range, so don't let him see a river card without paying for it.

I like sc's a lot more in HU pots like this compared to multiway where we are nervous getting in our stack vs a higher flush. I do these moves occasionally and giving description of V I don't mind it under a lot of circumstances but you have to remember that people eventually take a stand when folding or losing with several big hands and by your description it sounds like this has happened to him. I like this move when the V is up and plays a lot tighter or at the start of the session.

Your 3 bet squeeze has to be higher and people have already said this in the thread but arent really being specific as to why. Making it 45 will put a common 4 bet at 135 which is right around 1/6 of the effective stack size with V1. If you do any studying on 4bets or wide range 3/4 bets you will know that you always try and put your opponent at the 1/6 stack situation and avoid it yourself.

I would rather bet 125ish on the flop because it is a draw heavy board regardless of there not being a flushdraw but your flop and turn sizing does leave a nice slightly under PSB river shove so your line cant be that bad.

The only question left is what does V1 have. If he has AK/AQ here this would back up my theory that he was ready to take a stand against you. If this is the case, making that move preflop was really bad and you just ended up getting lucky. The only other option is TT since V1 would 4bet AA to avoid a 3way pot. KQs/QJs doesn't fit the description you gave V1 but could still be possible. Odd line but with the BDFD coming in and straight draws out there I rip the rest in now and enjoy the tables reaction when you show your hand.

Great read: I think V (and a lot of other players) were sick of my winning streak and starting to play back at me a bit. (But maybe not enough to commit.)

How much would you bet preflop?

Doesn't the shove risk folding out his bluffs and marginal holdings?

55-60 is fine.

If V1 is on a weird draw he might give up on the river knowing you aren't going to fold. 77 and 88 haven't been mentioned and are small possibilities as well. There isn't any more room to bluff on the river so its best to get it all in here instead of letting him off the hook for a couple extra hundred bux.

This is a 1/3 game with a $12 open and one caller, and you are 3betting to $55 - $60? Seems really big to me. I would go max $50 (I think $45 is about right). I realize we are deep, but it still seems excessive. Are you just hoping for folds?

I go a bit bigger if there are potentially multiple callers. If the first guy calls the 2nd guy surely is too. Its a great result to take this pot down preflop but if you always have an abc preflop raising size then randomly going bigger will look fishy. You could also just fold the 8 high.

Interesting. I'd rather save the $5 to $15 when they do have a hand to 4bet with (yes, I'm folding), and I don't mind multiple callers when I have suited connectors in a 3bet pot, especially when I'm the 3bettor and they rarely expect it. Winning right now with 8 high isn't a bad outcome, though.

With H's maniac style, you'd think they'd 4bet wider, but I guess they haven't adjusted or are waiting to "trap."

Honestly this is one of the biggest weaknesses I see in live play.

They know I'm raising and 3-betting wide (even complaining about it), yet they still never 4-bet me without AK/AA/KK. I've even seen them flatting QQ to my opens a few times.

The entire night I only got 4-bet twice (AA both times).

Way too small on the turn once he calls flop, and of course shove turn now when he actually ckr this card lol.

Its going to be very hard to outplay this tight guy who opened UTG often enough to make this profitable. I mean you hit the nuts so great, but what if the board is just about anything else and you know he has a premium PP?

You want to 3 bet with hands like this vs people who are likely to fold preflop but when they do call they are going to have a wide range that you can outplay IP (they will miss the flop often). You actually DO want to 3 bet LAGs with this hand.

This guy isnt going to miss many flops because he doesnt need to hit the flop. He has a made hand and a big one.

What combo draw does a tight guy have here after opening UTG? KsQs? Thats one combo IF he even opens that UTG. I doubt hes opening QsJs UTG.

Clearly jamming the turn is good. The guy probably has AA, but calling and getting all in on the river is fine also for the rare case that villain is making some move because hes tired of Heros antics.

Mike, I know you love to advocate that there are more ways that lead to Rome, but there is just no denying that shoving is clearly better than calling here. Not only could he still be check/folding a couple of combodraws (a tight guy can still be opening QJs and JTs, as long as "tight" is our only read"), but he might also fold some value hands if the river scares him. If effective stacks were 100 deeper, it would be a different story, because then he could still continue his air (if he ever has air after check/calling flop) on the river, but now I just don't see that ever happening.

Shoving is totally standard and 100% a good play. Im not arguing that at all.

There are lots of boards I can steal the pot from him (he will also call with AK/AQ).

Plus, he will actually *fold* preflop which I don't see most LAGs doing in my game (at least not to a <100 3-bet).

I agree shoving can't be *too* bad but what's the real risk with flatting? I highly doubt V has a draw here (he's not the type to semi-bluff) but jamming might get him to fold 1-pair hands.

If hes a tight player
1) who raised UTG
2) and will call a 3 bet with AK/AQ

What hands is he raising UTG that he will fold to a 3 bet? If hes calling a 3 bet with AK/AQ, hes not folding JJ+. Maybe he folds TT but that's about it and lots of tight players wont even raise TT UTG.

Its very unlikely that villain raised UTG, called a 3 bet...check/called the flop and then min check raised this turn with a 1 pair hand. What hand would that be? If he has AK/AQ and called a flop bet in a 3 bet pot OOP with just A high, hes terrible.

You are really all over the place with your reads and logic in this hand.

I think he'd fold AJ AQ and TT.

He's definitely terrible though.