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Did I play this wrong? Live NL200 Did I play this wrong? Live NL200

11-10-2013 , 09:04 PM
Let me know where I went wrong.

NL200 £1/2
SB - £280
BB- £210
Hero - £490
UTG - £220
UTG+1 £560
MP £300
LP - £600
CO - £550
BTN - £90


Straddle to £8
Hero UTG QhQc raises to £22 and gets 5 callers including the blinds.
flop 10c 8d 6s pot £124
Hero bets £60
UTG fold. UTG+1 calls £60 - all folds
Turn 3d Hero checks (hoping to check raise)
UTG+1 checks.
River - Qd Hero checks
UTG+1 bets £104
Hero ships it
UTG+1 snaps all in A10d Nut flush,
Hero mucks trip Q's

where did I go wrong, villian was always calling a turn barrel, the only option I think I had was to limp pre and raise big. the table was 50/50 4 pro live players(villian) and 4 fish.

let me know please, sorry about the HH
Did I play this wrong? Live NL200 Quote
11-11-2013 , 12:56 AM
Bet the turn, but as played it's fine. He rarely has a flush when he checks behind the turn.
Did I play this wrong? Live NL200 Quote
11-11-2013 , 06:48 AM
Usually when people straddle like that they will play any 2 cards to a raise. So I'd raise to 25 pre-flop, and I'd bet more like 2/3rds on the flop. Not much you can do vs a luck box
Did I play this wrong? Live NL200 Quote
11-11-2013 , 07:54 AM
Firstly, from your description, I'm not sure if you're UTG, UTG+1, or in the blinds, please clarify your position in the hand.

Secondly, for this hand villian descriptions, as well as a description of the overall table dynamic would be very helpful.

Generally people at 1/2 call PFRs pretty lightly with a straddle on because they delude themselves into thinking they have 'value'. As such, bet as much as you think they will call. I can't give an exact value because this varies a lot from table to table, but should be able to be deduced after being at the table for an orbit or two.

Given that your PFR was called in 5 spots, clearly you had a lot more room to increase its sizing.

As played, OTF this is the sort of board where I'm going to lead for pot ($120), and either bet fold or bet call depending upon the tendencies and stacksizing of the villian(s). If it's about $200 or less to call the raise, or the V will stick it in with TP, or a pair+straight draw, then I'm generally calling a flop raise. But against tighter villians a raise would generally be 2p+, as very few live villians will slowplay 2p+ on a board like this multiway.

The problem with your smaller bet otf is that as soon as one V calls, a calling train will often start at this sort of table, where often more than half the deck will put you behind on the turn due to having to dodge so many straight/2P/set outs.

As played, OTT it's a total brick, and I would definitely bet here for value. TP hands are generally only part of the Vs range, which also includes lower pairs, pair+SDs, or OESD, all of which will check back this turn. Going for a check raise on this turn is generally going to be unsuccessful, unless you have a read that the V has TP AND will bet it, or will bluff with weaker hands if checked to. At LLSNL either of these are generally unlikely.

OTR, there are only three hands that I can see a passive villian leading this river with. A back-door flush, J9 for a straight, or QT for two pair. Given we hold two of the remaining Qs, I think that we actually have to puke-fold this river. Against a range of Txdd, 9xdd, 7xdd, 6xdd, 45dd, QT and J9, you only have 6.12% equity, which is nowhere near enough to call 104.
Did I play this wrong? Live NL200 Quote
11-11-2013 , 10:11 AM
Preflop isn't clear. If you are the straddle here then the first thing to fix is don't do that. If you are right after the straddle, then your preflop raise wasn't big enough. With the straddle in play, 25/30 looks better here and with a that many villains calling a raise to 22 you need to be going 40/50. QQ is not a hand that wants callers OOP, better to raise a bit too much and get no callers then raise to little and get a mob.

Flop bet isn't big enough with that many villains, 80/90 here is much better on a somewhat dangerous flop. Once you take the lead betting, don't plan on check raising a dry turn, just lead for 1/2-2/3 pot.

On river your just going to lose money though. Once the turn is checked through you can't give up top set. Shoving is likely a mistake though. On a board where somebody could have a straight or made a back door flush, is villain ever calling a shove with less then a straight? Against a lot of villains, I just call that river.
Did I play this wrong? Live NL200 Quote
11-11-2013 , 10:50 AM
Where you went wrong was not getting lucky. Board is very dry, so I don't mind the smallish c-bet, even into so many Vs, nor do I mind pot controlling the turn. River shove is good, given the fact that the only hands that beat you are a slow played flopped straight or a back-door flush.

Next time, post more info on the Villains, as so much is players dependent in LLSNL. Also, don't post the results, as they bias people's responses.
Did I play this wrong? Live NL200 Quote
11-11-2013 , 11:23 AM
Yes ... looks as though you are in blinds or UTG from straddle, so UTG+1 from BB ... V is UTG+2 from BB IMO ...

If you are going to get 4 to 5 callers PF with this raise, then you need to raise more to thin the field a bit PF.

I would bet more on the Flop since if you get one caller the pot odds are very good for anyone else who is close to this Flop float behind. You are OOP and dont want to see an A or K on Turn. I dont think you need to go PSB, but 65-80% would be fair as you still get TPTK to stay in most cases. Reverse thinking here, but with the additional callers AP PF 'your' pot is now bloated to the point where taking it down here on the Flop isn't a bad thing, but you really need to get HU somehow since you really don't know where you are against so many opponents.

BET THE TURN ... Why c/r here? This is a blank, except for the flush draw, so make your opponent pay for any help they get on the River. Most players will gladly take a card here in position with a holding they can go to showdown with. You raised PF from early position, so I assume they 'know' you have something ... why would they bet into a blank? Are you repping a missed AK here trying to get all Tx to bet out and protect their holdings so you can c/r? Good sound thought, and you need to mix up your play, but I prefer to make opponents pay to stay or take pots down without showdown. Some missed value in doing that, but there's nothing wrong with winning pots before showdown IMO.

AP checking the River is good ... raising is BAD ... who is going to call your raise? Only sets/2 pr/flushes and all these hands beat you. Check/Call River AP ... I would probably check/call River even if I had bet out on Turn since if you bet into a board that now shows a flush your opponent has even one more reason to fold. Quite a few on this site will disagree with that, but you can look like you just 2-barreled and gave up and opponents will now try to rep the flush to get you to fold to weaker hands. I got my additional value from my Turn bet and the pot was bloated by having 4+ callers PF. Take the nice win when you can ... c/c River. GL
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11-11-2013 , 11:48 AM
Definitely attempting to look like AK on turn from my check/raise looking to just take it down OOT IMO. Villain is a tight player and I could never put him on calling tptk on flop, he'd likely flat a set or two pair hence my river push. I put him on flopped two pair through hundreds of hands played together.

I think I went wrong with my bet sizing OTT as £105 would be better, then barrel
Ship the turn, if he calls turn ship I run river twice and at least chop at best.

Seating was messed up in OP as I was first to act I assumed I was UTG without thinking. I was on fact UTG+2.

Thanks for your comments, all helps a lot!
Did I play this wrong? Live NL200 Quote

      
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