1-3 game at winstar
No reads on villian just sat down.
My chips haven't even been brought to me but I have 300$ behind

2nd hand I get delt 99 folds to me I'm 2 spots off from the button.
I raise 12$ and SB calls.

SB stack is around 450$
Flop 109K rainbow
SB leads for 10$
I raise to 35$
SB makes it 85$
I jam all in

Is this getting to crazy with my set?

lil bit.

his three bet on the flop looks pretty damn nutty after he leads for less than half pot.

most importantly. you just sat down. to four bet shove with the fourth nuts on the flop when don't have a feel for the table or your villian yet, is pretty much acting blind.

unfortunately, with your stack size, you are going to be forced to fold any turn that doesn't pair the board. and then you still don't know if you are good, unless you quad up.

1/3 at winstar can be a pretty splashy game, so you might get paid off by worse. but I would think not.

Yes. On this board given action, yes.

When I see lead/3-bet it's usually with better than bottom set. There's no point to 4-bet shove though. If KT is in his lead/3-bet range you need to keep him with the lead so he'll bet ott. You're letting him fold out the only hand you beat by shoving.

SPR on the flop is 11ish, I just don't think I'm ever folding a set at this point. If the SPR was a lot bigger, then we could think about slowing down. This board also has some two pair / pair + draw combos that could think they are nuttish, so I'm playing it the same way.

Gcoolerifwe'rebehind,imoG

I think your raise OTF was too small. Your raise back to him is $25 to win $44. I think raising a bit larger and folding is ok.

Kinda sucks because you're dead a lot of the time the action goes like this. I h@Z s3t tho...

I am never folding. But am not jamming either. I would flat and gii on turn. This allows him to gii with worse hands more often.

We are never folding better with our jam so I think it is +ev to flat and get it in on later streets.



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If QJ is in his range so is KT and T9

and there are plenty of villains that will overplay AK

And you have outs against QJ...

So meh, getting it all in with bottom set here isn't terrible but I don't like it.

When you shove like this, you are pushing out hands you beat. AK folds probably 75% of the time, and KQ folds probably 90% of the time. You probably fold out T9 30% of the time. So all that is left here is TT, KT, and QJ

When we flop monster, its important that we still play in a way in which lesser hands can call. And when you essentially 4-bet jam flop you ensure we are only called by the top of his range. I like the raise (sizing is fine though it could be $40 - $45) but when he 3-bets, I'd flat to keep his range wide as possible.

I'm also a big fan of flatting 3-bets (or raises) on the flop when I'm monster AND IN POSITION. Since we are in position villain will have to continue his aggression on the turn, so this way we keep in more of his air and lesser hands we beat.

In any event, this is probably a cooler type hand and we ran into QJ, but I'd still like to keep in as many AK and KQ hands as possible. Flat the 3-bet and then on turn V will likely shove into you and then you can call. This line would keep in more hands that we beat.

Another great post from DGI. Well written.

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What DGI said. I'm not folding, but the shove folds out too many hands we beat. Easy to get it in on the turn against a wider range by flatting the 3bet.

We play in different games if a typical villain bets/3bets for about 1/3rd effective stacks only to fold.

ETA: Having said that, I don't hate a flat (apart from the fact that 8 cards can kill our action).

GcluelessNLnoobG

Shouldn't we not rule out KK? We have no reads, no information, and no history.

I understand we would all 3! KK pre, but there are plenty of terribad Vs out there who would be content to call in SB with it

Are we ever folding? No...... Therefore, we got all the money in with a set. This is our job in the situation, sooooo you did the right thing.

This is just faulty logic. Not folding doesn't mean we have to shove as soon as possible. We want to play the hand in the most +EV way possible, which means ensuring we get all the money in against the widest possible range.

Thanks for the feed back guys all the advice is making sense

I agree completely.

I think that some of the posters in this forum play so many hands, that 3! KK and TT is just an automatic, so they don't see that possibility.

But I see it all the time in rec players at 1/2 and 1/3.

Incorrect (and illogical). Our job is to get all of villian's money in the middle, not just to get all of our own in there. Putting all of our own money in while villian has only committed to $85 serves no purpose whatsoever.

This^^^. I generally agree with flatting the flop and keeping V's range wider however after sticking in almost 1/3 of ES I don't think V is ever folding. So at this point I'm shoving just to avoid a potential scare card that can kill our action or complicate the hand.

Isn't it a running forum gag that you play in the absolute loosest games known to man?

I'm not folding a set ever in this spot, but you should be flatting his 3 bet. Even if he spazzed with a K he might get away from it when you shove. Just call flop and try to get the money in on later streets to keep his range wider.