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Did I miss value here? Did I miss value here?

08-07-2019 , 03:08 AM
Villain is an older Asian gentleman very tight, hardly opening and seen limp shipping $300 with Aces Kings and Queens when facing action preflop.
Hero is early 20s bluffy image as my age difference entails, have not gone to showdown.
~$480 effective I cover
Villain Utg+1 opens to $15 Hero in CO calls with A10 BB calls
Flop AQh4
BB checks Villain thinks for 20ish seconds and checks to hero who bets $35
BB folds Villain calls
Turn 2 Villain checks Hero checks behind (bad / good ?)
River 7 Villain checks Hero ??

Last edited by Ddebaggi; 08-07-2019 at 03:09 AM. Reason: Grammar
Did I miss value here? Quote
08-07-2019 , 03:16 AM
Vs a tight Villain that doesn’t open, and is opening from EP I rather check this flop and 2 Barrel turn if V keeps checking or Call 1 to fold vs barrel river.
We have 2 streets value vs his X/C range but we don’t have 2 streets of value vs his betting range IMO.

So answering your question: yes, I think we have missed value, but as played it’s hard to get this value. (B-X-B).
I’m betting close to half pot on this river. Maybe a little less.
Did I miss value here? Quote
08-07-2019 , 03:22 AM
I mean if V is bad enough to call with KK here maybe you missed value but I would be happy just winning the pot. This is a pretty dry board, only broadways should make anything so Id probably check flop and see what the original raiser does on the turn and if he checks turn Id take a stab and then check behind on the river.

If you bet this flop bet smaller. Id go for 20-25. You only need to worry about BB hitting his 2 outer set or 2 pair with a queen and if a broadway card comes up you shouldn't be putting another chip in the pot anyway. Check is fine.

Im guessing V is one of those people thinking he is sneaky by limping big hands and raising suited connectors and he had KQs/QJs/Axs here? If we are sure he constantly doing this then the preflop call isn't nearly as bad and you can go for 2 streets of value but just because someone limp raised huge hands a few times doesn't mean you cant put him on a big hand with an UTG raise as well.

Last edited by AAJTo; 08-07-2019 at 03:33 AM.
Did I miss value here? Quote
08-07-2019 , 07:53 AM
turn I check back as well I don't think he is going to call turn and river with worse plus we don't have many bluffs here.

river once he checks I am betting for value all day every day how could you not....if he check raises its a weird line but a fold... yes once in awhile we will get called by a nitty AK or AJ however he should have Ax suited hands as well that we can get value from or even a sigh call from KK or KQ
Did I miss value here? Quote
08-07-2019 , 08:39 AM
Definitely checking the flop. Your bet size was way too large anyways.

I go $45 on this river... we have the best hand almost every time, but almost impossible to get called by worse unless we go super small.
Did I miss value here? Quote
08-07-2019 , 08:51 AM
Slightly less otf, checking turn fine, AP bet half pot otr
Did I miss value here? Quote
08-07-2019 , 09:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KID777777
Slightly less otf, checking turn fine, AP bet half pot otr
What do you think will call? KK, KQ, JJ, TT?
Did I miss value here? Quote
08-07-2019 , 10:35 AM
fold pre vs this guy
I'd prefer to get my 1 street of value later on
Did I miss value here? Quote
08-07-2019 , 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixsevenoff
What do you think will call? KK, KQ, JJ, TT?
KK, KQ mostly. I think he'd let go of JJ/TT
There's the off chance he opened with a suited ace or QJ type hand too.
I don't expect he has much better since he should be leading value otr after we x turn back
Did I miss value here? Quote
08-07-2019 , 11:40 AM
Not totally in love with our preflop call against a tight EP open. But for this price, this deep, in position, and our hand being fairly fine ending up HU (where we can plays some pokrs) or multiway (where we can ~nutmine), I'm not going to hate too much.

I'm either/or on the flop. I'm fine with a smallish bet to charge broadway draws. But I'm also fine with a check back to try and eke out some later bets against worse hands that will fold A high flops right now (plus limit the damage when we're crushed on the flop, which we often are if anyone wants to continue for much longer).

I'm checking back the turn if I'm betting the flop almost always here. Very few worse hands are going to keep continuing especially with the threat of a big river bet coming.

Looks like easy peasy bet/fold value time on the river. We're targeting weak hands like underpairs (KK/JJ) and stuff like KQ, so I size small on the river to hopefully eke out getting paid. With $115 in the pot I probably go no more than $50ish and just hope my bet-flop-when-checked-to-but-check-back-turn looks suspect.

GcluelessNLnoobG
Did I miss value here? Quote
08-07-2019 , 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
Not totally in love with our preflop call against a tight EP open. But for this price, this deep, in position, and our hand being fairly fine ending up HU (where we can plays some pokrs) or multiway (where we can ~nutmine), I'm not going to hate too much.

I'm either/or on the flop. I'm fine with a smallish bet to charge broadway draws. But I'm also fine with a check back to try and eke out some later bets against worse hands that will fold A high flops right now (plus limit the damage when we're crushed on the flop, which we often are if anyone wants to continue for much longer).

I'm checking back the turn if I'm betting the flop almost always here. Very few worse hands are going to keep continuing especially with the threat of a big river bet coming.

Looks like easy peasy bet/fold value time on the river. We're targeting weak hands like underpairs (KK/JJ) and stuff like KQ, so I size small on the river to hopefully eke out getting paid. With $115 in the pot I probably go no more than $50ish and just hope my bet-flop-when-checked-to-but-check-back-turn looks suspect.

GcluelessNLnoobG
Yeah I think this is a great analysis of the hand, you hit it on the head I didn’t bet river, and he turned over KQ suited, turned over our hand for the winner.
I didn’t realize that this could even be a fold preflop but after playing the hand and not really ever understanding where I was I realized I could just fold pre.
Did I miss value here? Quote
08-07-2019 , 02:14 PM
I'm fine with the bet on the flop, you'll often get calls from KK, KQ, QJ, and weaker Ace's with BDFD. He seems to be a player the bets big when he has it, so when he checks this flop I am thinking that I am ahead.

$35 is meh, I'd probably go $25-$30. More likely to get called from hands that are worse at that price.

On the turn, HU, I think you should bet again. With roughly $115 in the pot, a bet in the range of $55-$65 might still draw some calls from unbelieving KK, or gutshot broadway draws. If you check back, and he leads river, you are probably going to call anyways so I like a bet on the turn followed by evaluating the river.

If you'd bet and gotten called on the turn, pot would be about $225 - $245. With this river and V checks, I think he is behind a large portion of the time and has a hand that won't call much of a bet. Checking is fine here, but I might lean towards trying to extract every dollar I can here and throw out a $25 bet. you'll often get crying calls from KK, KQ which is really what we are targeting on this river.
Did I miss value here? Quote
08-07-2019 , 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ddebaggi
Yeah I think this is a great analysis of the hand, you hit it on the head I didn’t bet river, and he turned over KQ suited, turned over our hand for the winner.
I didn’t realize that this could even be a fold preflop but after playing the hand and not really ever understanding where I was I realized I could just fold pre.
Try to hold off about a day or so before giving full results. It can skew the analysis provided by posters.

FWIW I didn't read your results prior to posting my analysis.
Did I miss value here? Quote

      
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