am i missing something here? a 3 means we lose to 86, an 8 would mean we lose to 96 (and i suspect people play 1-gappers more than 2-gappers). the benefit of a 3 is that we get to stack A2's wheel (which is probably what's happened here), but i don't think it makes us more likely to be behind.

yea you luckboxed your way into this hand but it happens. yea, okay, K6 is a "bad hand". the call preflop was marginal. the flop bet is okay, turn bet is worse (you're not getting value from worse, but at least you have some equity with your SD). that doesn't mean the river isn't a fist-pumping shove all day. when he shows 55 and you show K6 he's gonna be like "wtf? are you f-ing serious?" and you'll shrug and say "ship it".

wtf is this thread on about. You played a marginal hand in position in a multi way pot, which is fine. You have rivered the effective nuts as opponent never had 68 here so it is an easy shove. This seems a really trivial shove.

I am not going to slam your pre-flop decision because I think that hands posted here are more interesting if they represent a situation that is unique, often because of a pre-flop mistake or joining a hand because you think you can outplay them post-flop in position. And because I do it, so take the rest of my advice with a grain of salt.

Still, what was that turn bet supposed to accomplish other than burn money?

And now that you hit the miracle on the river, you shove because he probably has 2p or a set. 68 is a cooler - whatever.

totally totally agree

this is really the best lesson from this thread, not "fold pre". my guess is hero bet the turn because "i have top pair and a straight draw, that's a pretty strong hand". which is why everyone bets when they're starting out, thinking they're betting for "value" because they have a "strong hand".

betting for value means you expect to be called by worse hands. which is pretty much nothing here. maybe a backdoor NFD+pair (though i doubt they call $125, and might even c/r as a semibluff and then you're just f-ed). that's about it. the only weaker kings are K2 and K3...maybe K3 calls with pair+gutter but we're talking seriously thin value here.

now, that doesn't mean villain doesn't have weaker one-pair hands on the turn, it just means he's not calling your bet with those hands. he's folding them or c/r bluffing you, and he's calling or value-raising with better.

what happens if you check the turn?

a.) you get a free card for your draws
b.) you keep your range wide and may induce a bet from him with second-pair type hands that he would have folded to a second barrel
c.) you control the size of the pot and limit the size of his river value bet (if you're beat)
d.) you prevent him from raising you out of the pot with a weaker hand or draw
e.) if he has you beat with a bigger king, keeping your range wide gives you a ton of FE on the river, especially if a scary card hits it's going to be tough for him to call with 1-pair or even weak 2-pair hands.

see why checking back the turn is so much better, even when we have a stronger hand than villain?

I guess i'm in the minority here.

He's deep enough where calling with K6s on the BTN doesn't seem all that bad to me. the whole point of position is to use position + board texture + image + your reads to own your villains.

Sure, OP didn't really give us an effective description of his villains, his image, or the situation, but calling on the BTN preflop in this spot with the chip stacks involved doesn't seem terrible to me.

Come flop, again, I think the bet is okay, using position and taking control with the weakness shown. The real key here is folding out the preflop raiser. If the preflop raiser check raises us here, we are sooo done with this hand. But preflop raiser folds and CO calls which means CO probably has KQ, KJ, KT type hand. I'm leaning more towards KJ or KT. I can't see KQ check calling here and i'd think KQ would bet out in this spot.

Come turn, Hero has OESD. I'm in favor of continuing to bet. We are telling a story here and by betting in this spot we are saying we are really strong which will be key for betting off KJ or KT type hands on the river. Also, calling the first barrel is pretty much par for the course nowadays. The only way we can beat off KJ or KT type hands is to fire three barrels here otherwise, by checking turn, we surrendor this hand to KJ or KT imo.

Basically, the way I see this, checking turn means we are surrendering the hand. If we check turn, then no way we can push villain of river and thus villain wins with his KJ and KT and all he had to do was not flinch when we fired our first barrel. To me, this seems kinda exploitable don't you think?

Come river, this is a super easy OTT shove. We have been repping a strong King or maybe even a two pair type hand. I don't see villain putting us on a straight here. If villain has 86 its just a cooler

Lastly, my above line is image dependant. I'm not taking that line vs a calling station or a donk that will not lay down KT or KJ. So yes, if up against those types of players then absolutely check back turn. But if you are up against a thinking player or a player capable of laying down KT KJ, then yes, betting turn is not bad imo.

thanks for your input everyone, I've learned quite a bit. sometimes I know the right move to make as far as poker theory and from reading on here but then when I actually get involved in a live hand my brain flusters and I get "excited" taking any rational away and I bet when I should check, and check when I should bet, call when I should fold etc.

anyway I did just call his $500 river bet and low and behold he flips the 68 os.

fair enough - absent reads i just assume typical live donks who would never ever fold TPGK even to three barrels, unless maybe a flush comes in because that's all live donks ever notice in terms of board texture

but yes, against a player who could reasonably lay down a KT/KJ type hand, betting the turn is fine especially since the OESD gives us pretty solid equity if he decides to call us down

i see results have been posted now, but as i said before, this is a snap shove on the river. sorry he had 86 this time.

This