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Old 11-02-2013, 01:49 PM   #1
Pug Walker
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Did I do anything wrong? 2/5

Got totally owned my last session losing 4 buyins to what I'd say are bad beats, but I'd like some reassurance on my part please.

Hand 1
250 effective

I limp utg with ak off
Mp makes it 20, 3 callers, I make it 90, MP calls and BB calls
Flop
A34
BB shoves, I call, mp folds
Turn 5 river blank
BB scoops with 42d

Hand 2
250 effective
Crazy Asian straddles for 10
I limp in the bb with ak
Few other limpers, straddle makes it 35 more, sb calls, I make it 140
Straddler and sb call
Flop
Kq9
Sb check I shove straddler calls, sb folds
Turn blank
River j
Straddler flips 109off to scoop

Hand 3
500 effective
Same crazy Asian straddles, I have AQdd and limp in the bb again, he raises 30 again
Sb calls, I call, guy in mp shoves for 200, straddler calls, I reshove for +300 (500 total)
Straddler calls
Flop j high, turn blank, river blank
I show aq, short stack shows ak, straddler scoops with pocket 3's

Variance is killing my BR right now!
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Old 11-02-2013, 01:58 PM   #2
Richard Parker
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If you don't know answer to the first two hands, maybe you're playing too high.

As for how you played those hands, that's another long discussion.
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Old 11-02-2013, 02:02 PM   #3
Pug Walker
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Re: Did I do anything wrong? 2/5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Parker View Post
If you don't know answer to the first two hands, maybe you're playing too high.

As for how you played those hands, that's another long discussion.
I know they got lucky on me on those two hands tbh, I just needed to rant

So then please, let's discuss how I played the hands. I'm
Only here to learn, and I can't learn and fix leaks if
I don't know where they're coming from.
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Old 11-02-2013, 02:03 PM   #4
ECGrinder
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Go play 1/2. Buy in for 100bb. Stop limp raising. Read tons of strategy articles. Use your brain
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Old 11-02-2013, 02:07 PM   #5
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Re: Did I do anything wrong? 2/5

Yeah bad luck. I mean I don't mind the limping with big hands as much, if you're pretty sure someone will pop it and you can 3 bet it. I'm also assuming these two hands were isolated examples where you limped with big hands (and not something you do as a practice).

Yeah sometimes guys will call with crap and catch, it's the nature of the game, so the way the hands went down I think you were getting out drawn.
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Old 11-02-2013, 02:13 PM   #6
Richard Parker
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When you take the LRR line at less than 100bb, you're pretty much always going to have to shop flop.

It is very high variance and leaves little room to do anything else.

That's not why we are here.
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Old 11-02-2013, 02:49 PM   #7
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Re: Did I do anything wrong? 2/5

Obviously bad luck, but limp/reraise pushes up variance and random luck will be a bigger factor. That said, you seem to be limp/raising way too much. Limp/raise is a move for table where villains are aggressive but not terribly bad. It is mostly useful when you have reasonably competent but overly aggressive villains who will raise from the button too much. At tables full of aggressive fish/maniacs the raise gets called too often and your coin flipping with a small edge at best. With no FE, the limp/raise isn't a good move and you start losing what FE you might have had when you use it too much. Villains have to fear you have AA/KK when you limp/raise so it has to be rare.

Hand 1 and Hand 2 are just coolers but in hand 2 you shouldn't be limp raising your BB against a straddler with AK. It opens you up to too much trouble, raise to isolate the straddler rather then letting him raise because your raise should get more respect. Hand 3 is a good example of how not to limp raise. Trying to get too cute and you ended up shoving against two hands that had you beat and combined to leave you with almost no equity.
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Old 11-02-2013, 02:50 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECGrinder View Post
Go play 1/2. Buy in for 100bb. Stop limp raising. Read tons of strategy articles. Use your brain
+1
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Old 11-02-2013, 02:50 PM   #9
pd86
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Re: Did I do anything wrong? 2/5

Seems like a fun table obv the first two hands are as they are but the third hand i prolly wait for a way better spot if your table is willing to go all day with 33 109 off middle pair and hands of that nature why ship for flip when you can ship for 80/20
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Old 11-02-2013, 10:42 PM   #10
Buster65
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Re: Did I do anything wrong? 2/5

Yeah, limp/reraise is a "use sparingly" type move. 3 times in one night? Wow, just wow.

Ummm, yeah, hard to know where to start. Try to go 1 full session without a l/rr, then try to go another, then another.

Just remember, it's a 12 step program, buddy, Rome wasn't built in a day. We are all pulling for you.
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Old 11-02-2013, 10:47 PM   #11
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Re: Did I do anything wrong? 2/5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Parker View Post
If you don't know answer to the first two hands, maybe you're playing too high.

As for how you played those hands, that's another long discussion.
This. Actually though if there is someone who is really aggro and you are 50bb deep, limp raising with AK, AQ, 77-TT is probably optimal. I would play hands 1 and 2 the same way. Just got unlucky. Hand 3 is debatable
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Old 11-02-2013, 10:49 PM   #12
ibelieveyouoweme$80k
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Re: Did I do anything wrong? 2/5

Things you did wrong:

1) Played SS. Buyin full.
2) Limp/RR. Why not just limp/shove?
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Old 11-02-2013, 10:53 PM   #13
slimshady1999
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Re: Did I do anything wrong? 2/5

Think about it this way. Why would you open raise with AK, AQ, 99 type hands with your stack size when you are going to get called in multiple spots and have to check fold a ton??? Instead with your stack you can limp raise to pick up a ton of dead money or get it in as a 60-65% fav against most loose ranges??

Last edited by slimshady1999; 11-02-2013 at 10:59 PM.
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Old 11-02-2013, 10:58 PM   #14
slimshady1999
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Re: Did I do anything wrong? 2/5

Quote:
Originally Posted by IbelieveinChipKelly View Post
Things you did wrong:

1) Played SS. Buyin full.
2) Limp/RR. Why not just limp/shove?
We limp raise big here because a limp shove will fold out almost everything but a limp raise keeps in a wide range. I would recommend only limp raising JJ-88, AQ, AK to avoid being dominated. and QQ+ is strong enough for an open raise (and loses too much value if people fold to your limp raise) even when called in 3+ spots as you flop overpair often and can easily stack off even if whole table calls pre. This works well because stacks are so shallow, I wouldn't do this at 100+bb unless I had QQ+ against a tard. It's super high variance yes. Buy in for full next time and learn to play post flop.
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Old 11-03-2013, 02:22 AM   #15
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Re: Did I do anything wrong? 2/5

I agree with leaving yourself fold equity. It isn't like you hit huge on any of these hands. One pair hands are good often at tables against terrible players at showdown, but you can never bank on it. They will continue to run you down with bottom pair, or middle pair, or pair+straight draw hands. It lets you get the money in good, as Hands 1 and 2 present, but when you get outdrawn, it's for your whole stack and not a $125 pot instead as it may have been when you open raise, bet the flop, then you might be forced to shutdown when you know the fishes will outdraw.


If they happen to re-raise your open raise pre, you will then be able to 4-bet if you think A-K is good and they have to respect your raise. If they go into idiot mode and call a 4-bet shove with 4-2, so be it.

Hand 3, I don't like anything about limp-raising with A-Q. I'll give you one of the A-K hands, because it's a hand you can be tricky with and that's okay. It's just not a good idea to continue to do it, and I think you are better off opening A-K on the button especially, because they can read it as weakness.
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Old 11-03-2013, 05:44 AM   #16
ozmosis313
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Re: Did I do anything wrong? 2/5

-you got unlucky but you also did a lot wrong.
-you need to asses position and number of limpers, with playing only 250 effective and all the dead money in the pot you really want to be raising a lot more or shipping. You are playing more of a tournament ss type style. The deeper you are playing the less and less effective will be limp reraise. because it turns your hand face up and sprs get awkward. you only have ak, hand one you should be sizing a lot larger. hand 2 virtually identical. theres no point in raising half your stack. Your variance is super high because your making it cheep enough for them to call you. hand two you were lucky enough to hit the flop, in a lot of instances you will miss the flop and be first to act with half your stack in. might as well ship minimize variance and maximize fold equity. Even if your hand is face up it doesn't really matter. If you sized them better you would actually lower your variance and chip up a lot uncontested.

-hand 3 is pure spew and probably an indication of why you should actually not be buying in full. It's a different game I don't know what the **** you are doing here. Clearly your not the only one looking to trap the Asian guy im sure the whole table could be limping big. mp turned his hand face up, I would be thankfull that I just called the 30 instead of limp reraising as you had previously. Your range is way behind his and he's committed and you have no fold equity. your also shipping 500 in. Clearly your funamentals need some work.

Ask yourself why you are not willing to bet larger/ship with 250 effective and lots of dead money vs weak ranges with ak, but yet with aq only, against a tighter range, and 500 deep and no fold equity you are suddenly willing to ship it in??? What is going on here? Limp reraise I would only use as shortstack and sparingly.
-I had trouble tracking some of the action here. Is this Asian guy straddling the button?? why you are limping bb? I would try to play in a game where they don't allow button straddle it ruins the edge and is stupid rule.
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Old 11-03-2013, 02:07 PM   #17
AintNoLimit
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Re: Did I do anything wrong? 2/5

YOu are limping AK. I cant look any farther.
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Old 11-03-2013, 02:15 PM   #18
Havok
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Re: Did I do anything wrong? 2/5

Hand 1 is fine. Hand 2 the board is so coordinated I wouldn't be looking to get my stack in. Hand 3 I would muck AQ Pre to all of that action. I think getting your stack in pre with A/Q is a leak.

Also, just noticed the first two hands you started with 50 BB. Playing short is always going to lead to a lot of suck outs as most of your decisions will be pre, and on the flop. And you won't have the chips behind to push people off their hands.

Last edited by Havok; 11-03-2013 at 02:21 PM.
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