Im running into a little issue lately at the live 1-2s, my button raise range is TAG, I would say it generally goes J9s+,Q9s+K9s+, all pps, 89s+, AKs/o, QKs/o, AJs/o, AQs/o...and often J10/Q10/K10o+ thrown in if conditions are correct and no to few limps...

Obviously that range is to be adjusted situationally to the tables/Vs

The issue I'm having is way to many Vs viewing my button raises as any 2 cards and getting defensive (its like being the button has magically changed everything as opposed to lp or even hj), both with overcalls and !3s...this is consistently happening, often from the older crowd who think anyone <30 is on life bluff...aside from the 3 bets taking me off my lower range, the flats and subsequent 'stubborn' action is killing the positional post flop fold equity I would be expecting with my c-bets ect.

My initial reaction is maybe I should dial back my opening range on the button...but then I'm thinking maybe keep it intact so I can get more action of the top or my range by underrepping or !4...but THEN I think "hey...this is a live 1-2, almost noone is paying attention if I keep the range wider or nit it back anyways...so I should still get equivalent action from my bigger hands"...and that pushes me towards dropping some and only button raising like 88-AA, AJs+, AKo, KQs and maybe AQo...

Anyone have any advice on when/if/how I should go about tightening my button range in these situations? Or should I keep it relatively the same hoping the Vs mistakes postflop will make up for some of my fold equity potential being taken out on the lower end? Thx!

and on a similar note, in these situations can/should I justify opening up my 3-bet flats from limp-raisers or even opening up the !4 over top? thx

Actually you should probably increase your opening range vs a bunch of grumpy old bastards because they're increasing their calling range and probably calling you really light out of spite. The power of position here is going to give you such an extreme edge (as playing the button always does), but especially against players who are tilting against you. I'd raise/iso with like 56s+, 22+, and JTo+. Just dont cbet air. Cbet equity. You're going to hit a ton of boards with this range and being last to act you'll never have any tough decisions. You want your range to be as wide as possible here precisely so you can snap get it in when you finally hit the nuts. If you tighten up on your button range eventually you're going to flop a set or something and they'll probably give you credit once you suddenly come alive and commit your chips postflop. But if you're in 50% of pots from the button when you eventually hit they'll just think youre playing back or ****ing with them or something. The best situation in poker is when players think you're really loose when you're really not.

Now if they really are raging against you 3betting every single time then go ahead and just limp that range on the button. Just make sure you are playing as many pots as they are when you have position, because they're going to be at such a disadvantage. Dont get too loose and play ******ed ****, but the above mentioned range well play well on any flop that you remotely connect with.

If you're talking about button opening range (folded to you) that range is way too tight.

really? assuming 2-4 limpers...I figured it was adequate...what would you say I am most noticeably missing in range then? I like to C-bet a high% and feel like if my standard range opening button was much wider it would hurt me in that aspect...

btw I think the 2-4 limpers is pretty average, live vegas games so being on the button vs blinds only (and even vs one limp) is virtually non-existent

he said 'if it is folded to you' , there is a big difference between there being 0 limpers, 2 limpers, or 4 limpers. Your range should adjust according to the amount of limpers in the hand.

but OP your issue is probably a sizing problem... if you are raising to isolate, you need to make it an amount that will serve your purpose. If you are playing $1/$2 and there are 4 limpers to you, and you make it $10 , it is likely all 4 people will call. If you make it 20, you may only get one/no calls. You need to be constantly thinking about what your intentions are for betting and who we are trying to play pots against, and what your bet/size will accomplish.

I understood, so have to assume 2-4 limpers in the problem situations b/c folded around is virtually non existent in these games, if I find myself in that situation I would likely open up to betting J9os+ type hands and most suited connectors and any Axo on top of aforementioned range. I thought about the sizing issue, but I have been in the $18-20 sizing range with 2-4 limpers, Im still getting these light defensive flats from described older types and some light !3s, so the issue remains. Obviously hey cool were getting called light by oop stations...the problem is its killing my fold equity on C-bets from my lower range, so feels like I have to reduce cbets in these situations or dial down opening range...however what the guy said about actually increasing the range makes sense in a bubble...at least as far as long term +ev...

This question's answer is a very broad one. It will drift into the subject of totally outplaying the villain postflop through proper betsizing and judgment of how the villain will react to different lines taken.

Example, if some older guy wants to get sticky vs the ultima-bluffer then how far will he take it? How many big bets will he call with his garbagy middle pair etc. Its no different than online when stealing on BTN over 80% vs passive players. You just cant get cold feet when they get stubborn. Not always that is. Throw them a bone every so often to lull into thinking you are selectively picking spots somewhat.

Use regular old common sense and ask yourself how you can overcome a stubborn - novice player with position and obvious the V has a very weak hand.
You may have to experiment a bit with your crowd to see what reactions you get from different lines too.

The mentality of many LLSNL players is that if they want to see a flop, they'll play as long as the price is "reasonable." Limping simply means it isn't a monster like AA or KK. They're happy to see a flop for $2, but it is $15, that's OK too. If they hit the flop, they aren't folding if they have a piece of the flop to the table "bully."

As ashes to ashes said, don't raise just because you want to raise. Know what you want to accomplish. With J9o against 4 callers, you're a 28% favorite with the villains playing ATC. Against an 80% range, you're no better then they are. So you don't want calls. However, you don't want to raise so much that nobody calls when you have a premium hand.

Given that it is going to be hard to sustain raising big enough to get folds with as wide a range as you are playing, you're going to have to slide some the bottom of your range from raises to limps or folds.

I only mentioned the J9o and such in regards to the guys comment about folded around to me, which happens so rarely...assuming the standard 2-4 limpers (if not more), my generic button opening range is is this going to be too wide here?

and what i "Want" to accomplish with the raise is to get down to 2-3 way pot and hypothetically be in position with the initiative for cbet profitability...the problem is the stubborn 'not gonna let the button push me around' types are drying that c-bet equity up, as well as putting in light !3s...

so my options are to keep that range (or even expand it as someone mentioned) in an effort to maximize return on the top of that range, +potential V mistakes oop...OR to drop some of that range thats not showing the returns on c-bet/position aggression one would expect vs this kind of table/Vs

Your range is warped. Discard the high semi-connectors like J9o and QTo and raise smaller suited connectors like 56s+.

wtf is cbet equity ,.. you mean you want people to fold to your bluffs but they arent folding? all you have to do is simply adjust by tightening your range and you will profit when you outflop/outkick them and they stack off with weaker hands that they limp call with.

nobody said to expand your range over multiple limpers. He said *when it is folded to you* . You should be tightening your range over 4+ limp/callers. you cannot expect to outplay 4 players with weak hands just because you have position and know what a cbet is.

?

In a game where no one is folding pre, I would just be limping along with a lot of my range OTB, and I'd be looking to raise hands that could make good TP's (AK/AQ/KQ/premiums/etc). I don't really see the point in bloating the pot 4 ways with a hand like 56s, unless everyone was like 120-150bb+ deep (which usually isn't the case).

What are everyone's thoughts on varying your raise size? Let's say 2 limpers to us OTB with 78s, if I'm raising this I usually make it smaller than my standard ISO (like 5bb's), but if I had a hand like AQ/premiums I would make it 7-9bb's (I want to thin the field with these hands). I can usually get away with it, so I do it until someone notices/plays back at me. Same goes for UTG, I usually start out opening small PP's/SC's to 3.5-4bb's and my bigger hands 6-7.5bb's. I feel like it makes more sense to open small with small PP's/SC's because we want a multiway pot with those types of hands and don't want to bloat the pot yet.

I suggest you read the threads that are posted by people who are playing against (people like) you.

Almost all the advice is wait for the nuts: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...t-lag-1444154/

Lots of people can 3-bet with a weaker range, or call a continuation bet with 2nd pair. Very few are comfortable playing for their stack with those hands.