Deep 9 max 1-3 game. I lack in deep game strategy but Im also sure 90% of the field does also. Then again I really don't know what I'm looking for in terms of deep stack flaws. Been playing for several hours and have about 1800. Average Villian stack is about 6-800. Our main Villian has 2200+ and is the best player at the table by far. Has a wide range but his post flop game is pretty legit. I've made a point to avoid him until this hand.

Hero has A5 and elects to open in MP for $18, HJ calls, CO (main Villian) raises to 40, Blinds fold, Hero and HJ call.

Flop: 23Q (Pot $123)

Hero checks, HJ checks, Villian in CO bets $85, Hero (considers to C/r for two reasons: set up for a turn bluff -or- possible free cards to the river) but I decide to call because of the villains aggression. HJ folds.

Turn: 6 (Pot $293)

We bet 240 and instantly regret it knowing that Villian is aware that 45 combos are almost never in our range but we do have nut outs and it is a semi bluff that could push him off our pot, flawed thinking because villian makes it 800 total and stares at me. Hero?

At this point what are we ranging Villian??

It's a fold. Your lead, blew you off your equity.

What value hands are you ever flatting flop, leading river?

If V is good as you suggest. He knows this. Unless you have taken this line before for value.

You just turned your hand face up. You have no 2 pair combos. Very few straight combos. And a bunch of sets.

You are not playing a set or straight like this in this spot.

At very best. You have Qx. Which you likely check call also.

So villain has very easy spot to raise. Blow you off your draws, and can even value raise AA, KK comfortably. Since he has position.

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Turn is easiest check ever. Getting a ton of free cards. As he is checking back JJ, 10,10, AK.

We have 9 flush outs, 3 straight outs, and 3 overcard outs. So even if he bets full pot. We have the equity to make easy call.

If you want to turn hand into bluff. Check/raise turn, ship river!!!!!

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You don't really give us a 3bet frequency for V, but my guess is that he 3bets wide, especially from late position, so he is much wider than KK+ here.

With a tight image I would just check/ raise overbet the flop to like 350 or 400 to set up a turn shove. I think this is a great board to do this since the only sets in his range are QQ after his 3bet preflop. Additionally, you also block the 54hh so we know he doesn't have a combo draw here. If your image is snug, he will lay down his Qx combos and possibly KK. We are folding out a ton of hands that are ahead of us here that would decide to c-bet after 3betting.

Once we shove turn, I think he would fold every single hand other than QQ once we get to the turn, and we still have 13 outs to improve to a better hand. I think it's possible he could put you on Akhh, but he's not going to want to risk 1800 to bluffcatch a range that is dominating his range that is capped at one pair.

I really don't see how you can play this hand any other way since you decide to call a 3bet preflop from OOP.

Pre-flop is a 4-bet.

Ish,

Definitely use alot of A2-A-5 to 4 bet online.

But live I think it is spew. I can't even remember last time I got a fold 4 betting live.

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Flatters range is not strong and how strong is this stupid 3-bet from a "good postflop" villain.

It's only a good 3-bet size if hero spazzes and, I doubt Hero has given that read. His range is capped to non strong hands. Big 4-bet.

Would check-raising the flop (with a plan to 4b shove the flop) be spew? We have 12 outs to the effective nuts -- any heart plus three 4's. I'd like to see both the turn and the river without V being able to set his price.

Ex: V bets 85, we raise to 250. If V calls, we can either check the turn hoping our raise freezes him for a free card, or we can shove the turn (and still bink river if called). If V 3bets 600-800 we shove over the top of him and put him to a decision for his stack if he holds top pair, over pair, or a weaker flush draw. There aren't really any two-pair hands that make sense on the flop. We're really only afraid of a set of queens. I don't see V 3bet bluffing pre with 33 or 22 - we're so deep those hands would be a trivial set-mine.

For sake of argument let's say we're definitely behind. Ah 5h is 45.69% against TT+, AQ+, 32, 22, 33. Even if we narrow his range to only TPTK, two-pair, and sets, we are 43%. If we have any fold equity at all, wouldn't this make it a profitable raise/shove on the flop?

Isn't A5s (and A4s) the theoretically ideal 4bet bluffing hand pre flop? Given the super deep stacks, we also have the leeway to 4bet bluff without getting committed.

THIS. I think we should've made a plan to get it in on the flop, since it's at worst a coin-flip even if we get called. Assuming we're behind to TPTK, an overpair, oddball two-pair, or a set, we're still 43-45% to have the best hand with 2 cards to come. However, that drops to only 26% with 1 card to come if the turn bricks and at most 15% if the turn pairs the board (in practice we are likely drawing dead in that case).

That is alot of assumptions, on very little info.

Generally the smaller 3 bet size I see in my games. The more it is heavely weighted to QQ+

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" Has a wide range but his post flop game is pretty legit."

Nobody that has a wide range and is pretty "legit" postflop is making it $40 with a strong hand. This stake is the king of sizing tells. Treat the weak raise like it is vs this V until proven otherwise.

I suck at deepstack.

I'm assuming raising with stacks this deep will not narrow the field. Plus it sets us up for being 3bet which just makes it far more expensive to see a flop with our speculative hand. Honestly, I have a 0% raising range when deep (apart from perhaps in position if I think I can narrow the field), so this is a trivial open limp for me. I guess I also call the minraise since we're so deep, but banking on flush-over-flushing one of just two (at most) possible opponents (OOP to boot) seems really meh.

We have a monster hand with the nut flush draw + gutshot + overcard, plus we should have decent FE against a wide range of hands (whiffed Ax, JJ-, heck, anything other than QQ probably can't take too much heat). I think we have to flex our FE muscle in a pot that is worth winning bb-wise. I'd probably shove. I mean, lol, I say that with a lol because our 1/3 NL game never plays this deep and actually has a maximum bet rule of $700 (which I think I've seen come into play like ~twice in ~3200 hours), but I think that's what I'd do if I wasn't frozen up due to the insane stack sizes. We're OOP and if we whiff the turn things get more difficult, plus this guy doesn't sound like a moron (and is unlikely to payoff if we hit). Plus I like getting in things when I most likely have the most equity (which will be cut in half if we whiff the turn).

I don't hate our call flop / semi-bluff turn line, as I think it will still get lots of folds (from Ax, perhaps even underpairs).

A raise on a big street is a pretty big deal this deep, no? I mean, is this always QQ as you'd think AA/KK would just cautiously flat? In which case, we probably have no FE (unless this guy is rebluffing), so now it's just a math question of whether we think we have the odds to hit ~12 outs (perhaps minus some dirty outs).

ETA: Also totally cool with just check/raising flop to shove any turn as others have suggested; probably better than check/shoving flop as it gets us more money in the spots where he calls flop but folds turn.

GcluelessdeepstacknoobG