Deep stack 2/5 game

V is very tag, haven't seen him get out of line. He has seen me make big folds, folded a set when flush got there on river but I am yet to see him bluff or get out of line. He has been running like god and has built a 5.5 k stack

H - lag image although have been playing tighter last couple hours, shown down a couple of winners and have turned a losing session into a profitable one. Attempted 4 bet bluff earlier that back fired and although I didn't show, looked like I was at it.

Eff stacks 3.2k

H in sb kk
V utg

V opens for 15, 2 callers, h raises to 80, v reraises to 275, h makes it 750, v calls

Flop(1580)
865
H bets 800, v calls

Turn(3180)
7
H?

check-fold

First post for me so be kind; but I would think V has AA, QQ, or outside chance of AK suited or JJ. Smells like AA or QQ (KK too but unlikely since you have KK).

Not enough in stack to raise as any raise and I would say your stack is committed. I would shove and put the pressure on him. AA is unlikely to lay down but with a LAG image, maybe?

I like to error on side of putting pressure on...if he has AA then thats poker.

nah son, villain is putting on a clinic on how to stack KK < AA for 600bb.

You could consider the table dynamic (given that he has seen you 4bet bluff earlier and making big lay-downs) and hope that he has any other big PP than AA. But if your description of V is accurate than I think you're just leveling yourself into a bad play here. I would not stack off 600bb with KK vs a good regular.
I think you'd be better off if your 4! and your CB would be a bit smaller. I don't think you really need to protect your hands from draws vs his range on that flop.
As played I'd just check back turn and probably make a crying call on the river for the pot odds.
Btw I don't think shoving turn is accomplishing anything. I don't think he'd fold AA.

I don't disagree necessarily that he may have AA. But, what percentage of the time does he have something less? Final $1700 or so gets paid 2 to 1 if fold and if donk call with less gets 3 to 1. So if he would play this way with less than AA even 1/3 of the time then shouldn't we shove?

Agree we lose a fair amount but is this bad thinking? Or bad application?

Your 5bet is a massive error

wow, an 8.7k stack at 2/5. did you take any pics, OP?

Wow...you are so right. Missed that...

Why exactly would you consider 5 bet a massive error? Surely I want to try and get stacks in and the 5 bet gives me an spr of 1.6, how is this a huge error with kk?

Do you really want to get 640bbs in against a "very tag" player who is running like God? Without AA? I kinda don't.

+1

Is he even 4betting QQ this deep? I feel like his 4bets will be KK+. Maybe you haven't seen him be tricky, but perhaps there's a nonzero chance he has a weak suited Ax hand

I would probably just flat the 4bet rather than 5bet vs the described villain. A bit more info would help but in general I lean towards flatting KK here.

Against a reg I know relatively welI would actually flat AA here as well, but against your average joe I would 5bet AA only.

As played, I probably prefer betting a bit smaller on the flop. I wouldnt 5bet here so Im unsure post-flop.

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Addendum: The fact that youve posted sick spot with KK indicated somewhat that 5betting may be a mistake. We got action on a favourable flop and turn. That feeing that this isnt a great spot indicates that maybe flatting the 4bet is better.

Yeah, I don't love our position, and I think we made a coupla mistakes to get here, but now that we are here, we absolutely cannot compound our previous mistakes and make the biggest one of all, so shove, and bink the K OTR if we need to.

Think of it this way. What hands would a "very TAG" V who doesn't get out of line continue with when facing a massive 5! with effective stacks being over 600bbs deep? Ask yourself the same question when you state that you're trying to build a huge pot PF with KK so you can easily get a 600bb stack into the middle. You have KK, so do you think your V is going to be willing to put a huge stack in PF/flop with hands like QQ/JJ/AK?

If your V is as described, the only time he's going to funnel 600bbs into the pot in this spot is when he has you crushed. In a 100bb game, running KK into AA is just a cooler and you stack off without giving it much thought. With a 600bbs, if you stack off with KK then you're severely over playing your hand and you aren't adjusting your strategy to accommodate the size of your stack.

One way to think about whether your five bet was a mistake is to envision what would happen if he six bet shoves pre. Are you really calling and excited about it? If not, then KK likely represents pretty close to the bottom of your five betting range, in which case we are almost turning it into a bluff by five betting and are making it very easy to play against us as our range is polarized.

This deep, against standard players, five bets should almost exclusively be AA and bluffs that you can easily get away from, like A3s, etc. Five betting KK puts us in some rough spots whereas flatting a four bet with KK keeps our flatting range super strong and makes it tough for opponents to play us. The dream for KK is to get it in against QQ and I haven't yet met a capable player who will stack off with QQ this deep.

Thanks for all that feedback, being very honest, but not wanting to go into too much detail on 2+2, this kind of situation is relatively new to me.Tbh I was very close to flatting his 3 bet but this would Probably have been for the wrong reasons, just got out the hole, it was getting late and game usually breaks.

This is a really good analysis.


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