Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
DEEP / SHALLOW play on the turn with top end range - correct thought process ? DEEP / SHALLOW play on the turn with top end range - correct thought process ?

01-05-2017 , 12:51 PM
Looking for some constructive views on this one guys :

Game: 1/3 NL, Vancouver BC, game is generally slow , with most pots HU or 3 handed,

Villain 1: ABC middle aged chinese guy, have not seen any moves or anything to suggest moves from this Middle aged chinese guy,

Hero: LAG, raising in position whenever the situation / hand allows,

$1/3 NL (10 handed)

MP V1 ($250)
MP ( $300 )
CO Hero ($625)

Hero is dealt AKos

Preflop : couple folds, V1 limps, MP limps, Hero makes opens for $15,

Flop ($49) A,7,8 rainbow
V1 checks, MP checks, Hero bets $30, V1 calls, MP folds,

Turn ($109) A,
V1 check , Hero bets $60, V1 min raise to $120, Hero ???

Questions/Comments :
Board A,7,8,A
-facing a min raise with Villians remaining stack size I feel I have to pay it off,unless I have some super read here ???
- HOWEVER, what if stacks are MUCH DEEPER, if proceeding with hand how should turn and river be played with limited reads ??? this is maybe the more important question as this situation would come up with similar hands
- Its tough to get away with folding here deep/shallow playing a LAG style as I suspect most people already put me on air/ bluffs a good portion of time
DEEP / SHALLOW play on the turn with top end range - correct thought process ? Quote
01-05-2017 , 01:30 PM
There are 18 combinations of hands that beat you here. Call turn and call his river shove, or jam if checked to you. He could be doing this with Ax.

I am no expert in deep stack poker, but I would call down the rest of the streets to any less than pot sized bets here. If he starts over bet jamming, you will have a decision to make, but that will not happen often.
DEEP / SHALLOW play on the turn with top end range - correct thought process ? Quote
01-05-2017 , 01:42 PM
I think it's a pretty difficult spot.

What's an ABC guy showing up with preflop? Is he limp/calling a big Ax like AQ, or just raising it up himself? Is he limp/calling a weak Ax when he knows he'll be OOP and possibly in a HU pot? Or is he more likely limp/calling a setmining 88/77? The minraise is obviously begging for a call and he's never bluffing here. The question is how often can he show up with a worse Ax and also think it is the nuts. If Hero was a more tightish player, heck, Villain might even be just in check/calldown mode with Ax cuz he puts us on AK. Even against aggro us he may be fairly fine with just going into calldown mode with Ax so we can 4barrel air.

I probably would have checked back the flop, but I have a nittier image; with an aggro image I guess we have to bet it, but it basically commits us at these stacks and I'm not totally convinced we want to be committed (having only gotten in 6% of stacks preflop). The only thing the turn does is make the Villain more comfortable with commitment if he has Ax, although that may be enough for us to also feel comfortable getting in these smaller stacks.

GIdunnoG
DEEP / SHALLOW play on the turn with top end range - correct thought process ? Quote
01-05-2017 , 01:46 PM
Pretty sure there are only 12 combos we are losing to.
3x 77, 3x 88, 3x A8, 3x A7.

And we beat a bunch of lol played AQ-, so I'm def not folding.
Just a question if we should jam or call.
DEEP / SHALLOW play on the turn with top end range - correct thought process ? Quote
01-05-2017 , 05:15 PM
In position I'm going to just call his turn raise. We get another street of info to see how he sizes his river bet (and what the river card is) and we can choose to either call or jam (or I guess fold) depending on his sizing/live tells, etc.

OOP with same stack sizes, I'm just jamming.

If we were deeper, I am definitely just calling turn and then evaluating his sizing on the river if I want to just call or raise/fold for value.

Deeper + OOP would be a tougher spot.

(FYI bad players open limp/call lotssss of Ax, don't fold this)
DEEP / SHALLOW play on the turn with top end range - correct thought process ? Quote
01-05-2017 , 07:42 PM
There is a good chance you're behind, but with a LAG reputation, I don't think you can find a fold here. Even if behind, keep in mind any A, K, 8, 7, or 3 is probably giving you the best hand.

If you're deeper, absolutely you can fold. Villain's line is very nutted. Occasionally they might have AQ but this feels like a boat. For another $60 I'm calling just about regardless of stack sizes but can easily get off this hand facing pressure on the river vs this type of Villain when deeper. You said yourself, he is an "ABC" player who check/called and then check/min-raised the turn...feels like he is asking for a call to then stuff the river with his boat.
DEEP / SHALLOW play on the turn with top end range - correct thought process ? Quote

      
m