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Old 08-25-2015, 11:06 AM   #1
sdake31
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Decision w/ Over-pair vs LAG Villian

2/3 game at local poker room in San Diego

Villian (~$1000): Has been playing about 80% of his hands since Hero sat down about an hour ago, (any A, Picture cards, pocket pairs and anything from the button) He and the person to his right have been swapping $400+ pots over the last couple orbits (at least 3 times back and forth, one where they both turned boats) His stack has been on a roller-coaster (~$1500 when I sat down and reached as low as ~$650)

Hero (~$280): Sitting to Villains immediate left, haven't gotten too involved in any hands, most hands I've won have been against villain overextending his chip stack and loose play. Only hand I lost that table saw was UTG raise to $20 with AdJd against button on flop 2 10 8 two diamonds, I bet $30 he calls and board runs out dry chekcing all the way and he wins with pair 7s.

There are two more players in the hand but they don't matter too much, just very tight and small stacked (~$100).

THE HAND:

Villain raises to $20 from EP, Hero calls with QdQs (possible raise?) a MP and SB call

Flop ~$75: 3d 10c 9c

Villain quickly fires out $60, Hero???

In my mind if I call this bet I am committing to the hand considering I have about a pot size bet behind if the two others fold behind me and I can guarantee the villian will fire again with any card on the turn. So are my only options to shove or fold????

Any feedback is appreciated
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Old 08-25-2015, 11:16 AM   #2
johnny_on_the_spot
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Re: Decision w/ Over-pair vs LAG Villian

if you call and V will shove the turn, why would you shove now? beating LAGs is about letting them barrel into you, not raising so they can fold.

and lol at folding being an option when you have QQ on a T-high flop

just call down/shove river if not all in
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Old 08-25-2015, 12:32 PM   #3
Javanewt
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Re: Decision w/ Over-pair vs LAG Villian

I probably would have 3bet pre, but calling is probaly fine against this guy. What types of hands is he showing down and/or raising with? Is he chasing draws? I need a few more details before I can decide what to do.
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Old 08-25-2015, 02:51 PM   #4
gobbledygeek
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Re: Decision w/ Over-pair vs LAG Villian

Any idea on how loose this guy is opening from EP? With no other dead money in the pot I'm cool with flatting in position, although this will also likely invite others along which could make things complicated. But then we're also in a dicey situation if we're 4bet too.

Probably have to know more about his postflop play. He's betting big into 3 opponents on a drawy board, really looks like he's trying to protect his hand and we're not ahead of much (TT/99 just got there). While he's loosey goosey preflop (and I'm assuming more calling with ATC than raising with them?), does he play more ABC postflop? In the history hand it looks like he can be fairly passive / non-bluffy. I don't hate a fold although obviously this is a very nitty way to play the hand.

GnitG
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Old 08-25-2015, 02:54 PM   #5
gobbledygeek
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Re: Decision w/ Over-pair vs LAG Villian

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Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot View Post
if you call and V will shove the turn, why would you shove now? beating LAGs is about letting them barrel into you, not raising so they can fold.

and lol at folding being an option when you have QQ on a T-high flop

just call down/shove river if not all in
From OPs post I don't get the read that Villain is a LAG, but it's possible something is being lost in translation. The more loose/aggro he is, the more I'm probably 3betting postflop, and the more aggro he is the more I'm probably letting him hang himself postflop.

GbutI'mnotreallysureifthat'stheread?G
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Old 08-25-2015, 03:12 PM   #6
johnny_on_the_spot
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Re: Decision w/ Over-pair vs LAG Villian

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Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
From OPs post I don't get the read that Villain is a LAG, but it's possible something is being lost in translation. The more loose/aggro he is, the more I'm probably 3betting postflop, and the more aggro he is the more I'm probably letting him hang himself postflop.

GbutI'mnotreallysureifthat'stheread?G
reread OP, i'm not really sure where i got it from either...
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Old 08-25-2015, 03:14 PM   #7
gobbledygeek
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Re: Decision w/ Over-pair vs LAG Villian

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Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot View Post
reread OP, i'm not really sure where i got it from either...
His stack has been on a rollercoaster so that might sorta imply it, but it could also be he's just run into some hands (like the fullhouse over fullhouse).

Gneedmoreofaread,imoG
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Old 08-25-2015, 04:08 PM   #8
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Re: Decision w/ Over-pair vs LAG Villian

The only reason to raise the flop is if you know you have weak-tight tendencies and don't want to give yourself the opportunity to fold on any possible turn scare card.
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Old 08-25-2015, 04:20 PM   #9
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Re: Decision w/ Over-pair vs LAG Villian

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Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
His stack has been on a rollercoaster so that might sorta imply it, but it could also be he's just run into some hands (like the fullhouse over fullhouse).

Gneedmoreofaread,imoG
oh, hey, i figured out where i got the LAG V thought from... look at the title of the thread
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Old 08-25-2015, 05:12 PM   #10
The1Kid
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Re: Decision w/ Over-pair vs LAG Villian

Normal pre-flop bet-sizing would be helpful, is $20 the standard open for him/table?

3-bet for isolation/value pre- It makes it so much easier to play!

As played, shove if he thinks your tight. You made $120 if he folds.

You have to raise something to price out MP and SB, if you call there getting pretty good odds for their drawing hands. Try to end the hand, your gonna hate any A, K,

If you were heads-up I could see going with "let him barrel" type strategy.

QQ is not a hand I slow-play pre ever!
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Old 08-25-2015, 05:17 PM   #11
PFunkaliscious
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Re: Decision w/ Over-pair vs LAG Villian

as short as you are, there is no reason to 3! pre. it should be easy to get it in.

As played. Make it 160 on the flop. Never folding no matter what the turn card is.
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Old 08-25-2015, 05:56 PM   #12
kookiemonster
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Re: Decision w/ Over-pair vs LAG Villian

Sounds like he isnŽt folding if you 3! him pf, so IŽd go ahead and do that. Call me uncreative.

Folding would not be first choice on this flop. I prefer a min raise and a ship on the turn. Shipping here wouldnŽt be bad either but we have blockers to a OESD and I prefer to keep 5 outers in the hand.
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Old 08-25-2015, 07:01 PM   #13
Javanewt
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Re: Decision w/ Over-pair vs LAG Villian

All this advice and we still have no idea what this V raises with, what he c-bets with, what he calls with? Playing 80% of hands tells us nothing with respect to this hand. Nor does playing decent hands or having a wide range from the button. This is an EP raise and c-bet into multiple players on a draw-heavy board.

OP, give us more, please.
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Old 08-26-2015, 01:13 AM   #14
DrChesspain
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Re: Decision w/ Over-pair vs LAG Villian

I can't believe that anyone is considering folding this hand.
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Old 08-26-2015, 09:02 AM   #15
Javanewt
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Re: Decision w/ Over-pair vs LAG Villian

I haven't seen anyone mention folding? Did I miss something?
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Old 08-26-2015, 10:50 AM   #16
gobbledygeek
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Re: Decision w/ Over-pair vs LAG Villian

Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt View Post
I haven't seen anyone mention folding? Did I miss something?
I initially considered folding, but the OPs villain description in the history hand doesn't exactly read "LAG" as it does in the thread title.

Gneedmoreinfo,imoG
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Old 08-26-2015, 11:03 AM   #17
sdake31
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Re: Decision w/ Over-pair vs LAG Villian

The villain will open any pot if it's folded to him as well as if it's checked to him on any flop even if donk bet. He has been showing down all sorts of hands, there was another pot where he bet on a 7-high flush draw into a set and K-high flush draw, went raise by the set, call by the K-draw, and re-raise by Villain, and shove shove shove and the set hit full-house on river but Villain was basically drawing dead.

If I were to call the bet on the flop and any A, K or Club comes on the Turn what would I do then? Call his bet/shove? Fold to his bet? His check and then what on my part? I still have to think about the two players to act after me on the flop so if I were to call it definitely could invite one or both along given the odds.

I was mainly asking if my only two options were to call the bet and expect to get it in on the turn regardless or if folding was an option considering my call could invite the others and then commit my stack.
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Old 08-26-2015, 11:24 AM   #18
Javanewt
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Re: Decision w/ Over-pair vs LAG Villian

With the way this guy plays, a call or raise is fine, but I prefer the raise based on the 7-high flush draw hand. (Not worried about the two short-stackers; they have $40 more than the $60 bet. If they hit, so be it.)

Never folding.
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Old 08-26-2015, 11:25 AM   #19
Javanewt
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Re: Decision w/ Over-pair vs LAG Villian

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
I initially considered folding, but the OPs villain description in the history hand doesn't exactly read "LAG" as it does in the thread title.

Gneedmoreinfo,imoG
Ah. I read your post and didn't think you were really considering it -- just saying that it wasn't terrible for the nittiest of nits. Kind of as if you were letting the OP off the hook for mentioning it
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Old 08-26-2015, 11:33 AM   #20
gobbledygeek
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Re: Decision w/ Over-pair vs LAG Villian

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Originally Posted by Javanewt View Post
Ah. I read your post and didn't think you were really considering it -- just saying that it wasn't terrible for the nittiest of nits. Kind of as if you were letting the OP off the hook for mentioning it
Given extra info that OP has provided, I'm never folding and would definitely 3bet preflop.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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