Critique this hand and I'll reveal something pretty crazy - Page 2 - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

This analysis seems wrong. We don't need to set mine once we see V's hand. We can just jam every time the flop doesn't show an A or a K and win more that way, since we avoid getting stacked when V outflops us and usually deny him the ability to see turn and river, which he does get to see if we shove pre. Also, 14% of 400 is $56.

We're not HU with V. We haven't seen the third player's cards, so we can't just jam any non A/K flop. Or at least I don't think we can. The advantage of jamming is that it's very likely to get the third player out of the hand maximizing the value of having seen V's hand.

14% of 400 is indeed $56. Thanks for the correction. An editing error on my part. It should read:
(57% * 440) - (43% * 377) = $251 - $162 = $89.

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09-25-2017 , 06:54 PM

#27

Case2

old hand

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,303

Quote:

Originally Posted by cicakman

shove pre is beyond terrible when you know his hand and its one that he probably wont fold pre.

I'm very interested to hear your backup for this. Recall that we'll be 3-way OTF.

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09-25-2017 , 07:02 PM

#28

venice10

Referee

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 25,855

The "telling" issue has been debated to death in the LCP forum. There's no rule against inadvertently seeing another player's hand and saying nothing. What I've observed is that recreational players tend to believe something should be said while pros tend to want to say nothing.

Therefore, I'd like to cut off the discussion on the ethics of not saying anything. If you want to comment, find an old thread in LCP. If it continues, I'll lock this up.

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09-25-2017 , 09:44 PM

#29

soxfan43

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 219

Quote:

Originally Posted by <"))))><

Who folds river? I shoved the river

But you had perfect information...

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09-25-2017 , 11:43 PM

#30

<"))))><

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,545

Yeah but you said as played you'd fold river. I was just saying I was first to act but I guess you're saying you'd check/fold to a shove right?

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09-26-2017 , 02:36 AM

#31

browni3141

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 5,678

Folding at any point post-flop is completely nuts even if you hadn't known his hand.

Taking a flop with perfect information on villain's hand is better than GII pre-flop, IMO. The value of perfect information is huge, even with another unknown hand in the mix. Villain can continue to give us value without hitting his A/K by bluffing.

I'm not sure what Avaritia is getting at as the turn bet isn't that bad, but I'd check/call the turn to see the river with perfect information against a hand that is never folding any rivers. It's better to GII with 100% equity rather than 91% equity.

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09-26-2017 , 10:26 AM

#32

Avaritia

Confirmed 2500 hour haver

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 12,248

Sb's continue range is wider vs a check check bet than it is vs a check bet call. And btn is always betting turn. The difference is likely small, but there's certainly a difference.

Understanding dead money spots created by multiway pots is one of the few real advantages we have over online players.

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09-26-2017 , 12:29 PM

#33

browni3141

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 5,678

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avaritia

I don’t know how I forgot SB was still in the hand.

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09-26-2017 , 01:46 PM

#34

Avaritia

Confirmed 2500 hour haver

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 12,248

Yea, i will admit i have been taking this "dead money" concept pretty far, perhaps too far, in my game. I will double check in spots I never double checked last year and i will check in spots I would donk last year.

I am mimicking a very good player who initially confused me with his very passive lines but I came to the conclusion that this is what he was doing. Still not totally sure that is what he is doing and also not sure if Im applying correctly but I do know I have stacked some people in spots I would have never stacked them with aggression.

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09-26-2017 , 02:13 PM

#35

V3ttz3ao

centurion

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 188

Yeah, you should really give them one warning on that IMO, but I respect the fact that you don't have to and it is the other player's responsibility not yours to keep their cards concealed... I mean, this is more of a gray area convo than a hand analysis.

I personally agree with Avaritia in that I will let them know once. If they choose to do nothing and keep flashing cards high during a hand, helicopter folds preflop into the muck where I can see them and let me know what cards are not in the deck, that's on them and let's play "poker" lol

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09-27-2017 , 12:10 PM

#36

ZuneIt

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,160

The way I handle this multiway when I'm in the pot is to announce I believe I saw his cards so that I don't have an advantage over the other 'innocent' players. Let the floor decide whether I am suppose to say what I saw.

HU - it's everyone's responsibility to protect their own hand.

I would have told him at a later point that he should be more careful. Not after that hand though.

If I saw his hand but wasn't in the hand, I would have told him afterwords.

I shouldn't lose EV when I have KK vs. AK HU & my V exposes his cards to me.

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09-27-2017 , 01:21 PM

#37

donkatruck

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,911

It's a tough one. I've faced this before and cost myself money by not wanting to take advantage, and by that I mean, cost me money vs. playing the hand straight as it came if I didn't know the cards. I think that's a mistake and would not do that again.

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