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Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

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Old 05-19-2016, 01:08 AM   #26
kookiemonster
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Re: Critique bet sizing please

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Originally Posted by AsianNit View Post
You've played it like you have AA/KK/AK. I don't think villain is justified in raising at any point if he flopped bottom set.

AK=9combos, AA/KK=6 combos. A set of 5's should be an easy shove for value OTR. IMO.
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Old 05-19-2016, 01:27 AM   #27
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Re: Critique bet sizing please

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Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
You already know what my preflop comment / strategy / opinion of result is going to be.

From the looks of things, we started with a $650 stack (I'm assuming effective) and pot is $80 on the flop, so an SPR of ~8. Which means unless we think someone at the table is going to get out-of-line and raise a weak looking bet, we can easily play for stacks with three ~3/4 PSBs (assuming HU after the flop). So that's what I'd do.

SPR basically tells you the exact bet sizing to get in stacks by the river; it's as easy as memorizing an odds table.

So I'd bet a smidge more on the flop, a lot more on the turn, which will setup a trivial 3/4 PSB for the river. Even as played, the default line with a ~nuttish hand should always be to shove the river (we should have very good reason to do otherwise, imo), and even though that would be a slight overbet due to our slightly poor flop sizing / extremely poor turn sizing, that's still what I'd do.

GimoG

Meh. If you play deeper games with bigger SPR's I don't think this approach gets value for your hands. Much better to target a range, use your poker skills/judgement to assess on each street. If someone else has a monster you will probably get raised anyway so all that planning goes out the window.

SPR is definitely useful and should be noted on every flop, however I don't think it should be the primary basis for decisions.
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Old 05-19-2016, 02:05 AM   #28
johnnyBuz
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Re: Critique bet sizing please

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Originally Posted by kookiemonster View Post
SPR is definitely useful and should be noted on every flop, however I don't think it should be the primary basis for decisions.
Agreed. The only time I calculate the SPR is when we get to the flop. It's a good heuristic to use SPR ranges as your starting point for thinking about a hand, but I think it's utility is primarily limited to stacking off with top pair hands on draw heavy flops.

I believe PNLHE made a point to emphasize that SPR carries no bearing after the flop, though I routinely read HH's here referencing turn SPR's.
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Old 05-19-2016, 10:59 AM   #29
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Re: Critique bet sizing please

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Originally Posted by kookiemonster View Post
Meh. If you play deeper games with bigger SPR's I don't think this approach gets value for your hands. Much better to target a range, use your poker skills/judgement to assess on each street. If someone else has a monster you will probably get raised anyway so all that planning goes out the window.

SPR is definitely useful and should be noted on every flop, however I don't think it should be the primary basis for decisions.
Agreed that in deeper games that produce large SPRs you're going to have a much wider range of options.

However, in typical shallower games, or games like the one OP is playing in that play shallow thanks to large raises getting multiple callers, the flop SPR really should be the blueprint to the hand the majority of the time, especially with regards to playing for stacks by the river (unless there are good reasons to deviate, such as capitalizing on a very aggro players bluffing tendencies).

The SPR in this hand is a lol 8. Not getting in stacks by the river is flat out terrible.

GimoG
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Old 05-19-2016, 11:07 AM   #30
gobbledygeek
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Re: Critique bet sizing please

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Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
Agreed. The only time I calculate the SPR is when we get to the flop. It's a good heuristic to use SPR ranges as your starting point for thinking about a hand, but I think it's utility is primarily limited to stacking off with top pair hands on draw heavy flops.

I believe PNLHE made a point to emphasize that SPR carries no bearing after the flop, though I routinely read HH's here referencing turn SPR's.
I also only calculate the SPR on the flop and can't actually recall too many (if any really?) HHs that reference turn SPRs.

SPR has more usages that you are giving credit. For those who don't want to use it to plan out their hand regarding commitment / etc. (i.e. "our plan"), ok, fine, I won't argue with that; there are admittedly other ways to approach/plan a hand. However, in cases (like this one) where we simply want to play for stacks, SPR gives us a easy peasy solid blueprint about how to go about that regarding betsizing (as simple as memorizing an odds table).

In this case we wanted to play for stacks by the river. The SPR is 8, which means three 3/4 PSBs postflop (which are all reasonable bet sizes) will do the trick. And yet for some reason (was a good reason provided?) we did otherwise.

Gweleft*huge*moneyonthetablehereG
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Old 10-08-2018, 04:32 AM   #31
daygrindmike
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Re: Critique bet sizing please

Turn bet sucked bro, thats why you didn't stack the player.
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Old 10-08-2018, 09:08 AM   #32
KT_Purple
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Re: Critique bet sizing please

I don't mind this sizing at all. We have to target one pair Ax hands. usually people don't show up with AK since they normally re-raise pre and we have a giant blockade in our own hand. I might overbet the river to look like a bluff tho. It really depends on the player and your image. Sometimes it's hard to get away with that if you never bluff rivers so image matters too but your sizing here is good enough imho. WP
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