It's kinda late on a Sunday night. I've got to work in the morning so I'm thinking about leaving. I'm in the game for $300 and currently have $458 in front which is around the average at the table. This table is very loose and it seems like no matter what you make it preflop there's always at least 4 people to see the flop.(at least anything under $30) I'm utg and look down at 6h6s so I make it $8 and the whole table calls. I'm personally thinking if I don't hit a 6 on the flop I'm folding and going home. Flop comes out 6d5h3h. I decide to check and see what happens. Utg+1 makes it $15 and there's 2 callers before it gets back to me. I make it $65 really just trying to take it down right here. Utg+1 makes it $180, next guy shoves for $400 and the other guy shoves for $700. Now it's back on me and I'm tanking with top set. I've got $400 left and not sue if I should call or fold. I know there's no way I'm good here but with the pot being as big as it is and I know UTG+1 isn't folding he has $230 behind am I getting the right odds to try and boat up?

I'm sorry if I'm not using the correct format for this post. I haven't been on this site in a very long time.

You definitely could have the best hand, and even if you don't you're getting the odds to call.

Also lol at betting to take the pot down with top set. You want people to call you when you have this strong of a hand.

I did call and utg+1 and the guy who shoved for $700 had 4/7 other guy had 55 the river was a 3 and I scooped it just wasn't sure if I should of called or not.

The fact that you have 3 people allin on a 356 flop lets you know that these players are more than capable of stacking off without the nuts. Definitely call if off here.

By the way when you flop a set on a drawy board theres no need to "see what they do first". Anything they were going to bet with they were also going to call with, so you might as well cbet the flop. Look what happened anyway when you checked, 3 people shipped. You could have cbet and probably still got shoved on, but it would be a disaster if you checked and they all checked behind.

Never thought about that Javi but you're right. Thanks for the advice!

snap call. You may easily have the best hand over lower sets, 2 pair hands and strong draws on a draw heavy board. If someone really does have 42 or 47 you've got odds to boat or quad up.

If you really fold here, you need to rack up and cash out. One of the biggest things you need to do is just to rack up and cash out when you're mentally checked out, (i.e. late at night, after a solid winning day, when the thought creeps in your head to pass up EV to protect a winning day)

Nice hand, glad to hear you didn't fold it.

4 ways with top set, even if they have exactly sets and all the straights, you have 30% equity, making this a mandatory call with money in the pot. But your odds are better than that because a) there are other possible hands like a lolbad played AA and various draws and b) in these days of tougher games, some live players have acquired the capability of folding 74o even for a small raise, meaning we can discount some straights.

Not disagreeing with the conclusion, but actually it was interesting for me because with so much action I started considering what your equity would be vs. a worst case scenario of 1 villain with a straight and others with a set or 2 pair blocking your outs to boat up.

So obviously your set heads up vs. a straight has 35% equity, but if you're up against 47, 33 and 55 you have only 11% equity.
Vs. 47, 35, 55 you have 21%
Vs. 47 and either a set or straight you have 25-28%

So in the end estimating something like 30% equity is probably the right way to end up making the correct decision, in this case it's obviously a call, but with 3 other villains in the pot the possibility that you're outs are blocked could become very significant if your pot odds weren't so excellent.

--Edit, I just stoved 66 on this board vs 3 villains all with the same range of 47,24,33,55,35,36 which gives you 27% equity. So maybe this is where you got the 30% from.

Also, discounting some straights could actually be bad for you here, since if any single villain has a straight then the others are more likely to be blocking your outs. On the other hand there are obviously a bunch of other possible hands as well, like 4xhh, 45, AA/KK/QQ and so on.

I love this forum. Thanks guys

Yeah, I spent some time playing with it, myself, the 30% was from this input:

http://www.pokerstrategy.com
Board: 6d5h3h
Equity Win Tie
MP2 31.38% 31.21% 0.17% { 6h6s }
MP3 22.87% 12.47% 10.41% { 55, 33, 74s, 42s, 74o, 42o }
CO 22.87% 12.47% 10.41% { 55, 33, 74s, 42s, 74o, 42o }
BU 22.87% 12.47% 10.41% { 55, 33, 74s, 42s, 74o, 42o }

But I noticed that you can get radically different results by changing the ranges. The bottom line is that I don't think we can ever justify folding unless we can see villains' cards, as I don't think there's any way to put people on specific enough hands as opposed to ranges.

Questions:
1. What game are you playing?
2. What are the stakes?

I’m going to assume you are playing 1/2 NL.

See here for the proper way to post a hand: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...-asap-1031043/

PF: Fold. When you say the “whole table calls”, how many people are at the table? I’ll assume you are playing 9 handed.

F (72): SPR is 6.3 (your stack). Checking is bad. You are the preflop raiser; you want to start building a pot. Betting disguises your hand as most will expect you to cbet. If you’re planning on C/R against such a large field, you are basically saying “Look at me, I have a set (or 47).” So, as played, we decide to C/R. When it gets to us the pot is $117 and we raise to $65. Why we want to “take it down right here” I have no idea; do we not like money?

So everyone shoves. It’s unlikely that someone actually play 47, but maybe 24. If someone, say has Ah4h, it’s likely that their outs are taken up by someone else who also has a flush draw. Discounting what UTG+1 will do in response to these shoves, you need to call $385 to win $1087 ($72+$65+$180+$385+$385). So your odds are 2.8:1 or 26% equity. If we know UTG+1 will call, you need to call $385 to win $1292 ($72+$65+$385+$385+$385): 3.4:1 or 23%.

To boat or quad up you have (1) six, (3) fives, (3) threes, but you probably don’t have all the outs for the fives and threes because someone else may have a set, so really you have, let’s say 4 outs. So if you are counting on a boat or quads to win, you only have a 16% chance. Since 16% equity is less than your 23% pot odds you don’t have the right odds to call.

I don’t think I could fold here, for such a huge pot, knowing we may have the best hand.

The ranges that you guys picked also have to include Ah4h and AhXh

The only way you are not getting correct is if exactly 1 V has straight and the other two have set or 2p.

You can't know this so it is a trivial call. There is also 78 in there ranges as well.

This statement is not correct. He does not have the correct odds to call if he's counting on a boat to win. I think my math is correct. I guess he does if you are counting 7 outs, but that is way too many to presume since there are two all-ins and one likely on the way (UTG+1).

I would have folded. Definitely too many straights possible in a small raised family pot. when 3 people are raising and 2 go all in one of them has to have it (assuming this is 1/2, one goes all in for 400 then the next guy goes all in for 700? These are hands we can hero fold).

Just limp in pre. Your $8 sizing is just begging someone to 3-bet you (in which case you'll have to fold).

As played, bet flop and get the money in.

Not really, more straights = better, since while we dominate sets, they also have our outs.

We can only fold if we can see villains' hands, since it takes specific permutations for us to be enough of a dog to fold. We have to call on ranges.

Hero folding here is like hero folding KK to a preflop shove because villain might have AA but his range is QQ+/AK.

You are really advocating open folding 66 250 BBs deep? Waaaaaay too nitty.

I agree with the majority here, with a single exception.

Once you have decided to leave, leave. Failing that, shift to a weak-tight game till the blind. If I was about to leave, I would have limped preflop and check-called the flop, exercising some pot control.

There is nothing worse than getting felted after you decide to leave.

Glad it worked out for ya.

(1st career post)

Related question - in a NL game as OP describes (multiple expected callers in raised pot) how should open raise be sized?

Yes, even 250 bb deep, I don't play 66 UTG. Sure, if I know for a fact that I can limp in and no one will raise, we can limp and set mine. But I'm not good enough to profitably play low pairs from UTG, but if the OP or you do more power to you.

Your calculation of hand equity here is wrong, even if you assume he currently has 4 outs. If he has 4 outs on the turn, he's about 8% to improve on the turn. However, if the board doesn't pair on the turn, that gives him an additional 3 outs to pair the turn card on the river. So, if he misses on the turn, he has 7 outs to the river, so another 14% give or take. All told, that's 22% chances to improve even if 3 of the outs are in someone else's hand.

Yes, pairing the turn card on the river does give him the more outs, forgot about that one. Thanks!

Although, I'm not sure how to calculate that equity. I get the equity on the flop: Assuming 4 outs x 4 = 16%. And I get the equity on the turn - 3 additional outs, for a total of 7outs is 14%. But how do the math to combine the 16% on the flop and 14% on the turn for the total equity?

And if the math is 22% equity, we need at least 23% (assuming UTG+1 calls) to make it break even, so we don't have the direct odds, assuming 22% is correct.