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Could you read this guys hand? Could you read this guys hand?

06-10-2014 , 11:31 PM
I'm curious to ask what other players would do or play this situation.

The setup:
1/2 NL at a Casino. Been playing for a few hours, slowly bleeding away chips as the table is full of loose players with a penchant for 5-way all-ins. Finally catch a few hands and win back the $60 I nearly pissed away.
This guy, who looks like the actor Jeff Goldblum, is wearing a hat and sunglasses and has been playing very loose and flashy with lots of shoves, blind raises, catching suckouts, which seem to put the rest of the players on tilt to the point where they bust out and go home, leaving the table five handed.

I've been playing relatively tight until my triple-up where I played Q9d, was forced to call a shove with top pair, and caught a flush.

Next hand I'm dealt an 8,9 sooted diamonds. I limp in late position asking for the Actor look-a-like villain to raise from the small blind, which he does (noticed he'd raise me every hand I played since I first folded to a raise the first hand we played)

Action folds to me heads up and I call the $8. Pot is now about $20. I know it's probably not the greatest call but I figure I'd play off a relatively tight image in position (except for the previously made flush, I'd only play premium hands and pocket pairs).

Flop: 6, 8, 10 (rainbow)

Villain checks, I raise $10. Villain tanks for about half a minute as I stare blankly at the flop or into outer space. He calls.

Turn: 10 d. Villain checks and I check back taking the free card.

River is the Ah. Villain checks.

Here's my predicament:
With middle pair and a busted straight draw I'm not sure if I'm ahead. His range is wide but I'm sure he would have raised with premium pairs or anything above AQ as he's done before.

I bet $20 trying to rep a big hand. He tanks for about half-minute while I sweat it out. He eventually mucks.

What was his hand? What could he have done? What should I have done? Would one be ahead here with middle pair and essentially no kicker. In hindsight, I figure he had air and I would have won if I showed down but I was stupidly willing to risk $20 (and the pot) to try and "protect" my hand.

What's the deal? Is it possible to zero in on a range for a guy who blind raises, shoves AK, and generally runs over weak players?
Could you read this guys hand? Quote
06-10-2014 , 11:38 PM
Easy check

Its a $40 pot with very little action & you have mid pair. The guy is willing to check it down with you so just take the check and see if you have him beat. This is not exactly the kind of hand that requires complicated thinking

If your 8 is good, great, if not, onto the next

Edit: I missed the paragraph where you said what happened. I do not mean to be condescending but this is a pretty standard hand & not for a lot of $... What about this handmade you want to post about it
Could you read this guys hand? Quote
06-10-2014 , 11:39 PM
There is absolutely no way of guessing what he could have had here
Could you read this guys hand? Quote
06-10-2014 , 11:41 PM
As played, fine - you likely turned a a med-strength hand into a bluff and folded out 6x or QJ.

Next time, provide a more detailed account of preflop action and pot-size on all streets.

Last edited by scelsi; 06-10-2014 at 11:47 PM.
Could you read this guys hand? Quote
06-10-2014 , 11:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassius Chips

What's the deal? Is it possible to zero in on a range for a guy who blind raises, shoves AK, and generally runs over weak players?
I think what you're asking is what do I do with med-strength hands post flop vs a laggy/wide opener. Pay close attention to V's bet-sizing in SD hands, and correlate. This will give you a better shot at narrowing his range as a future hand develops.

Position is your friend. I'd avoid bloating pots OOP and simple c/c three streets with this sort of V.
Could you read this guys hand? Quote
06-10-2014 , 11:57 PM
Raise pre. As played, don't ask for villain to raise...wtf, don't understand that logic.

Bet on flop is good

Turn is a very good card for us. It makes it more likely that we have the best hand. Bet for value. If he raises we can fold, but if he calls he will generally check the river which gets us to a cheap showdown if we want one.

River would be a sick value bet if you felt you had him beat. However, you didn't know what villain had and apparently didn't even know why you were betting. Better is never folding in this spot. You may get 8x to fold sometime (would have been a chop), but pretty much you are just folding out worse, and getting better to call.

What does villain have? He generally has a hand like 67 or 77. Some sort of draw.
Could you read this guys hand? Quote
06-11-2014 , 12:34 AM
thanks all,
Reason i chose to post about this hand is because I can usually read a low-stakes villain's hand but this was a complete mystery and didn't know how something like that should be played. Check all the way down sounds like the correct play as I could have walked into a nightmare.
Could you read this guys hand? Quote
06-11-2014 , 12:36 AM
Checking it all the way down is not the correct play. Betting flop and turn are optimal. Checking river is generally correct here.
Could you read this guys hand? Quote
06-11-2014 , 03:26 AM
looks like the Q9dd hand might be more interesting...
as far as this hand, flop is close, turn is a bet, river a check or a merged valuebet, never a bluff with this sizing.
Could you read this guys hand? Quote
06-11-2014 , 03:40 AM
As far as what he may have had...

You bet $10 on the flop. Loose players will float that bet all day long with virtually anything.

I think you needed to bet turn to get whatever value you could get. This guy doesn't have a 10, he's not raising pre and then checking flop when he hits top pair.

River, I would have checked. You aren't getting called by worse here, and your line doesn't look like you have a 10. If this guy has an 8, he is calling for at least a chop
Could you read this guys hand? Quote
06-11-2014 , 03:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassius Chips
thanks all,
Reason i chose to post about this hand is because I can usually read a low-stakes villain's hand but this was a complete mystery and didn't know how something like that should be played. Check all the way down sounds like the correct play as I could have walked into a nightmare.
I don't see how checking it down would be correct. This guy raised from sb, which signals a strong holding... Then he checked flop, which screams, I missed.

IMO, your mistakes were checking the turn, which obviously didn't hit v. And betting river, which could have easily hit v.
Could you read this guys hand? Quote
06-11-2014 , 08:53 AM
he had nothing. he tanked because he wants to try and project that his preflop raise justifies a tough decision (when infact you said its quite large)
Could you read this guys hand? Quote
06-11-2014 , 08:54 AM
he calls with any hand that beats you as well but folds anything else, so with showdown value its suuuch a check on river...
Could you read this guys hand? Quote
06-11-2014 , 09:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrindPokerAllDay
Checking it all the way down is not the correct play. Betting flop and turn are optimal. Checking river is generally correct here.
This.
Could you read this guys hand? Quote
06-11-2014 , 11:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheydacheese
he calls with any hand that beats you as well but folds anything else, so with showdown value its suuuch a check on river...
I concur, Against this type of villain, he could raise you on the river with air and you would have to fold.
Could you read this guys hand? Quote
06-11-2014 , 01:15 PM
Agree with wheydacheese....absolutely no reason to bet on river. Agree with betting flop and turn here though. Anything that beats you is calling on river....just check it down.
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06-11-2014 , 01:55 PM
Interesting you were forced to call an allin w top pair in a previous hand. Not sure what that means, but this hand is not at all interesting and he probably has 2 unpaired big cards or air almost always. I would have bet the turn and checked the river. And expected to win a high % of the time
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06-11-2014 , 08:46 PM
If he would have bet the river I was going to fold.

Never occurred to me to bet the turn when the board paired but mistakenly was hoping to improve.

This ever happened to you when you immediately realized bet was a mistake if he had any sort of hand that beat mine as soon as it's out there. Awwwwkward...

So I'm NOT ready for 5/10 yet?
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06-13-2014 , 12:34 AM
Check river. Your hand has showdown value and is probally good. This is also a small pot and isn't that significant. Move on the the next hand. The bet on the flop was fine. Villans range is not something that would call with worse on the river. He likely has a 6 or 7 in his hand or maybe some kind of random K high hand. Regardless, your hand has showdown value and there is no need to bet. The main reason to bet any hand on the river is for value. Meaning you hope to get called by worse.
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06-13-2014 , 02:09 AM
77 and 99 make the most sense. Maybe 22-55 as well. KQs, KJs.

He calls with any ace and Tx obviously. I doubt he's folding an Ax on the river. I just can't see it.

Edit: As others have said: b/f turn, check river.
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