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Constant trouble... Constant trouble...

08-29-2013 , 12:01 AM
I don't always get in trouble with this hand, I just am not sure how to play AT/AJ in early positions (SB/BB) after being raised in mid position with CO sometimes calling and BTN calling. Example:

Just sat down, no real action and I've completed a full orbit (came in after the button)
2/3 at Oceans 11 in Oceanside, CA

In SB: AJo
Mid pos: raises to 16
BTN: calls
Hero: ?

Should I raise or call? Thoughts? I often call and end up just burning my money cause I have no position and flop nothing, and even if I flop an ace, do I have the goods? I honestly only feel good when I flop a J in that position... I happened to raise pre to switch it up. I raised to 46 and he went all in (I folded)... But what's the right play? Is that a fold?
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08-29-2013 , 12:05 AM
BTN didn't call, but more than often (purely for position in this game 2/3) I see the BTN calling...
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08-29-2013 , 12:37 AM
I fold
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08-29-2013 , 12:54 AM
Squeeze nearly always. Opener likely has a wider range and otb likely a speculative hand wanting to see a flop. Flatting sucks here but not as bad as folding. Even if otb calls you have enough equity on flops to continue and are ahead of his range
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08-29-2013 , 01:01 AM
same as moditude. Never play AJ to a raise; always seems to be begging for trouble.
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08-29-2013 , 01:14 AM
flatting with AJ
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08-29-2013 , 04:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExpectedV
flatting with AJ
I concur, without a read. It is really is dependent on how many worse A they raise.
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08-29-2013 , 08:02 AM
Without a read on tableI fold AT/AJo from the blind. Once I have some reads there are some specific situations where I might play those hands to a raise out of the blinds, but mostly they are still folds. If the initial raise gets one or two callers and the situation is good they are good enough to squeeze. Other then that, I'm only playing those hands to exploit specific bad villains. Even against a generic fish your only slightly ahead of their range and having to play OOP takes away most of EV.
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08-29-2013 , 10:36 AM
I think I fold there, u either win a small pot or lose a big one oop

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08-29-2013 , 12:21 PM
Just fold unless the OR is a total spew...AJ/ATo are terrible hands to play OOP
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08-29-2013 , 01:10 PM
With no reads I fold AJo from OOP to a raise.
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08-29-2013 , 01:34 PM
Don't limp.

Either be the opener so you have the betting lead or fold. The only time limping with a hand like this is at a really active table where you're seeing raised multi-way pots in which case you plan to squeeze.

Basically, you don't want to be coming in with AJ/AT on a limp or a flat. Part of the hands strength is the c-betting lead you get from raising pre (similar to AQ/AK).

This is just an extra point in my thoughts, if someone is raising in MP and you have position with AT/AJ - don't flat, either 3-bet or fold. The point is taking a lot of pots preflop and if they decide to flat they're ranges become more defined and you can outplay them.
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08-29-2013 , 04:24 PM
flatting is the worst thing. Folding would be the best, but if you did know this open raiser to be raising wide then you can 3bet him but with no info, I would fold the sb.
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08-29-2013 , 04:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanAA44
I don't always get in trouble with this hand, I just am not sure how to play AT/AJ in early positions (SB/BB) after being raised in mid position with CO sometimes calling and BTN calling. Example:

Just sat down, no real action and I've completed a full orbit (came in after the button)
2/3 at Oceans 11 in Oceanside, CA

In SB: AJo
Mid pos: raises to 16
BTN: calls
Hero: ?

Should I raise or call?
FOLD

Fold>Raise>Call

These are terrible hands to play out of position and no offense but the reason you get into these trouble spots is because you are probably a beginning player and aren't yet good postflop. That's why you should tighten your range and avoid playing out of position until you improve your postflop game. Especially with tricky hands like these.

Calling is usually the worst thing u can do out of position, you either have to decide to play the hand aggressively and 3bet or fold.

Last edited by Krakus; 08-29-2013 at 04:52 PM.
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08-29-2013 , 06:46 PM
Against a 5xbb open I would only call if we were pretty deep. If he raised 3xbb I would call with 100bb stacks.

3-betting is obviously fine at any depth if it's done with the proper frequency. Just consider that if you always squeezed with AJ, that would already make A-high almost as likely as QQ+ in your 3-betting range, and people who just call too much are going to play correctly against you.
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08-29-2013 , 07:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by interesting.frog
Against a 5xbb open I would only call if we were pretty deep. If he raised 3xbb I would call with 100bb stacks.

3-betting is obviously fine at any depth if it's done with the proper frequency. Just consider that if you always squeezed with AJ, that would already make A-high almost as likely as QQ+ in your 3-betting range, and people who just call too much are going to play correctly against you.
it depends who the opener was. If he is a nit, I am running away with my tail between my legs. If he is a lag, I am happy to 3bet him. nothing to do with frequency (when we 3bet).

If there is a wide opener in late position and I have A10 in the blinds, I am 3betting him all day.
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08-29-2013 , 08:00 PM
pretty easy fold
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08-29-2013 , 08:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Playbig2000
it depends who the opener was. If he is a nit, I am running away with my tail between my legs. If he is a lag, I am happy to 3bet him. nothing to do with frequency (when we 3bet).

If there is a wide opener in late position and I have A10 in the blinds, I am 3betting him all day.
I agree with this post. If you think the opener will consider folding to a 3bet, then 3bet is good. If he's nitty and is opening with a tight range, then 3bet won't work and calling puts us behind his range also, so fold is best.
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08-29-2013 , 09:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krakus
FOLD

Fold>Raise>Call

These are terrible hands to play out of position and no offense but the reason you get into these trouble spots is because you are probably a beginning player and aren't yet good postflop. That's why you should tighten your range and avoid playing out of position until you improve your postflop game. Especially with tricky hands like these.

Calling is usually the worst thing u can do out of position, you either have to decide to play the hand aggressively and 3bet or fold.
I can play post, just wanna know opinions because, obviously, there are a variety of ways to play it. I felt it was villain dependent (hence why I stated I had just sat down for one orb), just wanted some more input. I tend to limp but have noticed I am just burning money. I tried the 3 bet and it didn't work... I know it MAY work sometimes, just wanna know the over all consensus...
I usually don't play AJ/ATo in early positions (3 after the BB), just wanna know if a move in a blind is spewy or not considering the mid raise.

Say it was unraised but a couple limpers and I have AJo... Am I raising? Limping?
Sorry to add to the thread, just curious. I'm trying to not limp so often as to get me in habit of playing position better and start with better hands... Thanks guys. All the input is appreciated

Last edited by RyanAA44; 08-29-2013 at 09:08 PM.
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08-29-2013 , 10:10 PM
It depends entirely on villain tendencies so not having reads sucks. If one or both of the are loose enough to call a 3b with a range you beat then go ahead and 3b for value. There are certain fish I'd be comfortable flatting against and playing postflop, but if they're good just fold. Readless like we are here, I'd default to folding.

In the scenario where it's limped around I'm almost always limping AT and am limping AJ a lot too depending on villain lineup. I don't much like building a pot OOP if it's liable to go multiway when I have the option to see a flop for free or nearly free.
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08-29-2013 , 11:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverScurred
It depends entirely on villain tendencies so not having reads sucks. If one or both of the are loose enough to call a 3b with a range you beat then go ahead and 3b for value. There are certain fish I'd be comfortable flatting against and playing postflop, but if they're good just fold. Readless like we are here, I'd default to folding.

In the scenario where it's limped around I'm almost always limping AT and am limping AJ a lot too depending on villain lineup. I don't much like building a pot OOP if it's liable to go multiway when I have the option to see a flop for free or nearly free.
Thank you.
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