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confused a hell confused a hell

10-03-2014 , 02:38 PM
2/5 NL

table is full of Old men and passive regs. Will usually get limps all round and noone raises preflop lost of people limping JJ+ but calling a lot

stacks are about 350+
Hero limps UTG with A10 I limp due to the fact that people will rarely raise preflop but will call day long.
UTG+1 raises to 15
6 callers
hero calls the 15
pot is 105
Flop is Q 10 7
checked to Preflop raiser who bets 25
villain 2 in LP raises to 75
SB cold calls the 75
Hero was going to 3 bet the Preflop raiser to 75 but I was not really sure if I should 4 bet or just flat call since I thought the villain 2 has 2 pair+, I was pretty confident that the Preflop raiser was only going to flat call or fold
Hero just calls
Preflop raiser just calls
Pot is 405
Turn is 6
checks to Preflop raiser who bets 40
villian 2 just calls
SB just calls
hero calls
river A
checks to hero ????
I dont know what to do am I ahead here more often than not and try to value bet or am I only going to get called by better?
on the flop I thought that was far behind but on the turn I didn't really know what was going on after everyone just flat called the 40
confused a hell Quote
10-03-2014 , 02:42 PM
Stacks are so short here you should that with middle pair and nut flush draw here you should have shoved on the flop. I think it's a little too precise to assume your opponent has 2pair or better, and even if he does, you've got outs so let's see what happens.
confused a hell Quote
10-03-2014 , 02:43 PM
I would have jammed flop.
confused a hell Quote
10-03-2014 , 02:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ValueBluff
I would have jammed flop.
This.
confused a hell Quote
10-03-2014 , 02:54 PM
Obv attack flop. Played too passively to know where you stand by river. Two straights got there, both completed by limp-call cards. So did AQ, which I am expecting pre-flop-raiser to have. I'm not betting into 3 other people here with no info at a table like this. I c/(crying)c depending on the action before it gets back to me, if it does.
confused a hell Quote
10-03-2014 , 02:54 PM
Def jamming the flop also. For so many reasons. Get too pair to fold. Get worse flush draws to call (which are probly almost drawing dead). Get called by one pair hands that you have over 50% equity in. The ace completes a straight draw so you don't know if the ace is good for two pair. More reason to push on flop. There's literally no reason not to push flop.
confused a hell Quote
10-03-2014 , 02:54 PM
Villain betting 40 into 405, then Villain 2 flatting is perplexing......

GII on the flop.
confused a hell Quote
10-03-2014 , 04:11 PM
Shove flop, shove turn, shove river.
confused a hell Quote
10-03-2014 , 04:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trev
Def jamming the flop also. For so many reasons. Get too pair to fold. Get worse flush draws to call (which are probly almost drawing dead). Get called by one pair hands that you have over 50% equity in. The ace completes a straight draw so you don't know if the ace is good for two pair. More reason to push on flop. There's literally no reason not to push flop.
I mean the exact opposite could happen and we might fold out the flush draws, which would suck. Against 2 pair (21 combos) we're 53% and against sets (7 combos) we're about 31%. Against flush draws we're about 90% or better.

I guess the value of the shove is in the fold equity, as everyone might fold and we pick up $200 which is huge. Sucks to get rid of some flush draws though in case we both bink. If we did, stacks are probably going in given the SPR. If the stacks are big enough, I think I just call the flop. I really dont think you played it badly.

As played, I'd probably lead out for ~60 and expect to get called pretty wide. I dont like a check call all that much because I think its usually only KJ that bets, since hands that didnt improve should have made a solid bet on the turn instead. There might be an AQ thats hung around. If we're raised on the river, we only beat A7, and I think we can probably let this go and save $150, since the table is passive
confused a hell Quote
10-03-2014 , 04:51 PM
6 callers ahead of us jimmy
confused a hell Quote
10-03-2014 , 05:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by niceguy22
I mean the exact opposite could happen and we might fold out the flush draws, which would suck. Against 2 pair (21 combos) we're 53% and against sets (7 combos) we're about 31%. Against flush draws we're about 90% or better.

I guess the value of the shove is in the fold equity, as everyone might fold and we pick up $200 which is huge. Sucks to get rid of some flush draws though in case we both bink. If we did, stacks are probably going in given the SPR. If the stacks are big enough, I think I just call the flop. I really dont think you played it badly.

As played, I'd probably lead out for ~60 and expect to get called pretty wide. I dont like a check call all that much because I think its usually only KJ that bets, since hands that didnt improve should have made a solid bet on the turn instead. There might be an AQ thats hung around. If we're raised on the river, we only beat A7, and I think we can probably let this go and save $150, since the table is passive
Id like it if someone could elaborate though so I know where everyone's coming from when they say shove. I guess that aside from the obvious semi bluff that's profitable, another advantage of shoving is that if we just call, we could get priced out on the turn, leaving a large portion of our stack in the middle. However, if there was ever a table that would misplay the hand and let us draw for way too cheap, this might be it, with so many passives.

Last edited by niceguy22; 10-03-2014 at 05:52 PM.
confused a hell Quote
10-03-2014 , 06:22 PM
Actually, I think V2 has a combo-draw. The OP was going to c/r on the flop and V2 beat him to it. I don't think 2pair+ lets this check through with that many players in the hand.

However, the big mistakes are pf. Raise in the UTG instead of limping. If too many people are calling, raise more until they stop. They'll snicker at you losing value as they fold their AQ to your AT. Let them.
confused a hell Quote
10-03-2014 , 06:31 PM
dislike limping pre usually. jamming flop a lot.
confused a hell Quote
10-03-2014 , 10:26 PM
I like to min raise to $80 or $100. First, you will not get reraised. NOBODY has the nuts.
Second, the 2 hands that could beat you are: AQ and low straight to 10 and they can't reraise.

Please post result.
confused a hell Quote

      
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