BTN old guy I never seen before. sitting on a big stack
not a omc for sure. has been raising a bit and acts very fast.

hero has $500 has been quiet and card dead new to table. BTN covers.

few limpers BTN makes it $25 on BTN $15-$20 has been standard open sizes
hero in SB makes it $75 with A Q
only button calls

flop is 4 3 8 (pot is about $160)
hero cbets 80 planning on continuing on diamonds and J-A turns
Btn calls

turn is 9
hero check folds to a $120 bet

my problem is I have just burned off a lot of bb's without putting any real pressure on btn and good chance I just got outplayed with all sorts of random hands

3 bet bigger pf especially when oop. Bet 1/3 pot on flop and shove turn.

The reg fish always take your line when they don't have it. Sometimes they even just check the flop and have given up.

When I see people that do this I defend 3bet vs them at 100% and call flop 100% just to see if they will check the turn.

It's like printing money vs them.

Be willing to get stacked and commit. You'd be surprised how many people call flop super wide, but then when you shove the turn they no longer are willing to call with their 55. They think "oh this guy really has it."

+10

I agree with Spyu’s line of thinking here but I think a x/give up on the flop is fine as well. Maybe c/c if he bets small.

He’s going to have a lot of pairs that may get sticky and it doesn’t seem like we have a lot of specific info on this guy’s frequencies. If he has AK we can take it down with a delayed c-bet OTT anyways.

I would lean to just flatting preflop. If we get 4bet we have to fold and we forfeit our 3bet and our equity. We're often going to be left with our dick in our hand with a 3bet / flop cbet and A high on the turn OOP. We're ok with inviting in a dominated Ace to overcall. Admittedly we'd rather not everyone overcall as this will setup a smallish SPR where playing TP this multiway will be difficult, but our hand does play well multiway (albeit in higher SPR pots). We can also just quietly check/fold whiffed flops for relatively cheap and move on. But I'm fairly passive like that with relatively little dead money in the pot and non-short stacks OOP.

Flop/turn is the spot we are in *a lot* thanks to preflop, and it just ain't a great spot.

GcluelessNLnoobG

This advice is bad on so many levels. Shoving on a flop that misses your range as a bluff is dumb. If you are going to bluff at least do it when the flop hits your range and you have decent equity when called. Also, who in their right mind risks 100+ BB to win a ~40 BB pot?

OP realize that you are not going to win every pot. You took a stab at a pot that missed your range and got called. Move on to the next hand.

BTW, carefully consider some of the advice you are given here. Live players are known for not being the best poker players out there.

Matzah why did you create a new account?

Sorry for my dumb advice. I'll keep it to myself from now on.

Esp on a 438r fop. A cbets not takin anything down, he's prob calling with his whole range.

I apologize. I didn't notice that there was already 100 BB in the pot on turn. (That's a crazy 1/3 game where a 3 bet is 25 BB.) Since there is already 100BB on the turn, shoving 116 BB as a bluff isn't the huge overbet I thought it was. It's still better to bluff on a board favorable to your range and a hand with outs though.

Since the PF raise was so big I would have just called instead of three betting here unless the guy is known to lay down a lot of hands to three bets.

Not sure who Matzah is.

this is a deeper 1-3 game where people can buy in upto 600

pretty much all the open raises were in the $15-$25 range


I don't think it's that unusual for live poker

This is all pretty standard for a typical LLSNL 1/3 NL game, imo. Add on that a raise will raise will typically get multiple callers and all of a sudden 100bb becomes a fairly shortish stack (leading me to conclude that we should almost never be getting out-of-line with <= 100bb stacks preflop).

Gclueless1/3NLnoobG

OP you should plan ahead. If you 3bet pf you have to barrel the turn and maybe river when you miss, especially on flops like this one where most villains put you on AK.

If you're not willing to barrel then just call and play ABC, check/fold when you miss otherwise you're burning money.

When people are raising bigger I am 3 betting less often.

Idk if this is a good 3 bet, but it certainly doesn't seem obligatory. I'd lean no.

Nice hand to take multway. Nice to have a big ace in your range.

Whether you should bluff of your stack is very player dependent. But I very rarely would having failed pick up any outs.

I don't really like these straight forward bet bet bet spots where you are saying you have qq or kk+ (in the language of many games) and you either have it or not.

I think people are so much worse in other spots, like multway. There aren't a lot of Doug Polk videos about 5 way pots to help them get better. Even here people often talk about how the don't want to go multway.

Your poor position is a little offset by the fact that you can check the flop without giving up any info.