I tried to post this in the low stress strategy questions thread but didn't get feedback.

In loose passive calling fests with huge BTN straddles ($7 or more in a 1/2 game) is it standard to bomb it after getting multiple limps and we're in CO with KJo and 98s when we have TAG image?*

Had both of these two nights ago...first one $8 straddle everyone has $150-$500 four limps to us in CO and we raise to $65 with KJo.*

Second time was a $7 straddle where everyone had $150-$400, six limps to us in CO with 98s and we make it $70. Are both of these spots standard? We should be raising with a very wide range here, right? Do we raise with low-mid pp, or just set mine?

KJo doesn't make nutted hands very often so we don't want to call and take a flop multiway; raise or fold here depending on how weak/wide people are limping

89s on the other hand looks like a great spot to overlimp

I'm not sure if it's standard to bomb the offsuit hands, like KJo but I think in this case it does make sense to have a slightly wider linear raise range, no need to include bluffs like 45s but don't need to be raising AA/KK only either.

I think low-mid pp work better as set mining hands, and some middling/high suited connectors are on the edge. I would probably raise with something like [TT+,KJs+,ATs+,AJo+, KQo], KJo imo is around where the line is (something like KTo or QJo probably too loose). I'd second ashtona in that KJ is one of those hands that doesn't work well as a call - if I think it's too loose I fold it.

Hard to say though you'd think that people wouldn't be limping strong hands but this isn't always the case. Some people like to limp/raise KK/AA and some don't like to raise over straddles and put a big chunk of their stack in with AQo or JJ.

No, massive spew.

With only BTN left to act behind us, this is a decent opportunity to get in cheap with speculative hands like small pairs & suited connectors/gappers, so I don't like raising those as much when calling looks profitable.

In both hands, our raise size gets us close to commitment territory against the shorter stacked player(s), not to mention creating potential small-SPR flop situations. Due to this, I think we should choose a range focused mainly on mid-high pairs & big cards. Our "bluffs" are just the weaker end of the range we choose. I don't encounter spots like this at my 1/2 due to no BTN straddle & limits on straddle size, but a range I use to blast away at fields of short-mid stacked limpers is something like { 88+, AJ+, KQ, ATs, KJs } with the potential for more suited broadways/Ax as "bluffs" / semi-bluffs if we like our chances of taking it down preflop.

if you're only $200 deep and straddle is $7 or $8, you can consider shoving a good amount of hands over those limps (66+, ATo+, etc). you're only 20-30bb deep eff and their ranges are capped w/ lots of dead $

Yep.

I mean it’s great to just see flops for a single blind with hands like these, overlimping is fine.

I think these are just kind of "play live poker" situations.

A lot of people will limp/rr good-great hands in straddled pots. So you have to be aware of that. Some players, including good ones, will limp every hand they play from EP.

For the button to fold, often times you either gotta raise big or he has to have a real POS.

Sometimes, the button will call too wide and then everyone else does too.

Other games, a lot of players are scared and will give up very easily pre.

But some players will often be suspicious of you going after the dead money and decide to go with PPs or something like At.

You need to have a handle on how the button and the early limpers in particular are playing and get some tells.

Some guys have really big sizing tells in straddled pots. Their size says, "what is the absolute minimum I can raise to where the straddle might fold a weak hand?" They do this with hands like KQ or JTs, where they feel they should attack the straddle, but are afraid of playing a giant pot.

I'd much rather use KJ than 98s. You block bigger hands and with inflated BBs, I think high card value is more important and the ability to flop a really nutted hand or a big draw that you can semi-bluff is less important. You probably won't be betting anyone off a good pair postflop so a draw is just a draw.

No you do not want to raise wide here, so many ways for you to get punished including many players habitually limping strong hands.

Good feedback in this thread - Lower SPR if raising, hand strength, over limp ok, etc.

I would only add that your TAG image means very little in these spots.

It completely makes sense to limp hands like sc's and pp's, but why aren't we raising KJo here? I thought that KJo is simply not a good hand, and one that plays well as a raise because of blockers.

In a "loose passive calling fest" I wouldn't be getting out-of-line, ever, even with the nittiest of nit images (which is what I have). First, players are "loose", so good luck getting people to fold preflop. Second, players are "passive", which means they are often limping big hands (that a lot of people will argue they "should" raise), so good luck isolating yourself against these hands with 9 high.

ETA: I'd be overlimping these hands in the CO and simply trying to get into a pot for cheap in position against most of the world, with the only drawback being that one person will have position on me (so folding ain't horrendous either, especially if you can't navigate high SPR pots in position well, but I'm willing to take that small cheap risk).

GABCthesegames,imoG

It's a good hand with which to overlimp the button and make the nuts.