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Checking an overpair multiway, insanity? Checking an overpair multiway, insanity?

09-05-2010 , 04:30 PM
Live 2/3 in Australia

I havent posted as much recently as I was before because I am playing more 10/20 Limit these days then 2/3 NL, having a small amount of success which is nice, and my Limit WR has proven over a smallish sample to be better then my 2/3 NL so why not. However, I was on a waitlist for Limit and as such played 2/3, got kinda deep on a goodish table so decided to play out the day on 2/3.

This hand was after a couple hours, and I wasn't the Hero in this case. It was someone else who up until this point I had thought of as a relatively good player who is probably a winner. From what I have seen, the last few hours he has lost a few biggish hands and might be a bit tilty, and did make a squeeze preflop 3betting 47o which worked and he showed...

The table has been pretty good as mentioned. A number of players are giving off bet sizing tells (someone raising to 42 after a limper with AA, and a shedload of minraises both pre and post flop... A few of players are 400+ deep and most have at least +100...

Hero starts this hand with around 190...

Hero raises to 17 after a limper from somewhere in MP. Gets called by the lowjack, a somewhat tilting reg who is kinda bad, the HJ, a tightish passive asian girl, me, someone who is lagging it up a bit today but generally tight but very aggressive, and one of the blinds. Limper calls IIRC...

POT: 90ish
Flop 245r

Checked to Hero who elects to check with three players behind...

After this hand I asked him why, and he said the multiwayness, someone flopping a set etc... meant that he should check, with the intention IHO of c/c the flop, betting brick turns, and I dont know whether he wanted to stack off or not...

I asked someone else who I generally think of as someone who has his head screwed on when it comes to poker, and he agreed, though he might not have fully understood the action when I gave it to him...

Is this complete insanity? Or am I just an imbecile for thinking overpair + preflop initiative = bet...

Answers please

Cheers

Ash
Checking an overpair multiway, insanity? Quote
09-05-2010 , 04:46 PM
what overpair did he have? i think i wouldnt bet 77 here, but most likely AA...
Checking an overpair multiway, insanity? Quote
09-05-2010 , 04:55 PM
i didn't read thoroughly but i dont think you know hero's pp. I would prob checkback with 77-99 and bet 33, 55, TT+ (and sets obv, but he didn't have a set)
Checking an overpair multiway, insanity? Quote
09-05-2010 , 04:56 PM
I left the exact overpair out for reasons if it changed from 77-AA, though IMO they play pretty much the same.

Will give the exact overpair later if required IMO...
Checking an overpair multiway, insanity? Quote
09-05-2010 , 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashley12
I left the exact overpair out for reasons if it changed from 77-AA, though IMO they play pretty much the same.

Will give the exact overpair later if required IMO...
so far, it matters to 2/2 replies. I dont think 7's and 8's have a ton of betting value here. But i think AA definitely do.
Checking an overpair multiway, insanity? Quote
09-05-2010 , 05:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashley12
Live 2/3 in Australia
This hand was after a couple hours, and I wasn't the Hero in this case. It was someone else who up until this point I had thought of as a relatively good player who is probably a winner. From what I have seen, the last few hours he has lost a few biggish hands and might be a bit tilty, and did make a squeeze preflop 3betting 47o which worked and he showed...

Hero starts this hand with around 190...
Ash
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashley12
I left the exact overpair out for reasons if it changed from 77-AA, though IMO they play pretty much the same.

Will give the exact overpair later if required IMO...
77 to AA do play differently, very differently. Peopl fold 77/88/99...

Also, I feel your analysis of hero is really poor. These details don't add up. He's making squeeze plays preflop with crappy hands. Showing!! And he plays shortstacked (under 100BB deep). These are all signs of mediocre, losing regs.

You are likely profitable at these stakes, but perhaps you should spend more time thinking through poker, winning styles, etc.
Checking an overpair multiway, insanity? Quote
09-05-2010 , 06:02 PM
Quote:
77 to AA do play differently, very differently. Peopl fold 77/88/99...

Also, I feel your analysis of hero is really poor. These details don't add up. He's making squeeze plays preflop with crappy hands. Showing!! And he plays shortstacked (under 100BB deep). These are all signs of mediocre, losing regs.

You are likely profitable at these stakes, but perhaps you should spend more time thinking through poker, winning styles, etc.
I thought I had mentioned it in the post, but this particular game in Australia is a 200max BI. As such, even being at 190 isnt completely out of the ordinary... I generally top up in increments of 100, but some people play to the felt and some top up in 25's, so whatever floats your boat.

Making squeezes isnt something that is completely ZOMG out of the ordinary, and is does help to an extent in balancing your 3bet range to something other then the perhaps standard JJ+ and AK. In that spot, its looked a perfectly fine play especially when mentioned later that two of the others had telegraphed folds behind. The initial open was a weak 10 raise from somewhere close to UTG against someone who did have a betsize tell in smaller = weaker which I had picked up, and I guessed he did too...

About giving the exact hand, if it didnt matter, people would tell me. I didnt want to make this a ZOMG, he played AA/KK/JJ/whatever hand thread where people make the same LOL overplayed overpair statements. If the hands do play differently, say so but say why. In my beliefs, I felt that basically 88+ played the same as AA on this particular board and given the types of players behind. Im not saying that Im right end of story, but if people think I am wrong, well, tell me why?

I do know what he had because the hand did end up getting to showdown. The rest of the action of the hand isnt the question, its this particular action I am curious about...
Checking an overpair multiway, insanity? Quote
09-05-2010 , 06:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashley12
Checked to Hero who elects to check with three players behind...

After this hand I asked him why, and he said the multiwayness, someone flopping a set etc... meant that he should check, with the intention IHO of c/c the flop, betting brick turns, and I dont know whether he wanted to stack off or not...

I asked someone else who I generally think of as someone who has his head screwed on when it comes to poker, and he agreed, though he might not have fully understood the action when I gave it to him...

Is this complete insanity? Or am I just an imbecile for thinking overpair + preflop initiative = bet...

Answers please

Cheers

Ash
Meh, thats playing scared poker. Its one of the elements of a losing sslnl player. The other players can hold a str8, two pair, set just as easily as they can hold KK or AJ.

I am betting this nearly 100% of the time and playing poker after I release the chips.
Checking an overpair multiway, insanity? Quote

      
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