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Old 05-18-2021, 02:56 AM   #1
ES2
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Check an overpair like a wimp?

Lately I've been softplaying strong, non nutty hands too much. Then this happens.

2/5. V is OK winning 30. A white. Hero doesn't play poker much anymore.

V opens to 25 from MP. 2 calls. Hero KcKs in BB, makes it 120.

V call, others fold.

4c7hTs.

H bets 90. Call.

Turn Jc.

Hero?
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Old 05-18-2021, 03:06 AM   #2
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Re: Check an overpair like a wimp?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ES2 View Post
Lately I've been softplaying strong, non nutty hands too much. Then this happens.

2/5. V is OK winning 30. A white. Hero doesn't play poker much anymore.

V opens to 25 from MP. 2 calls. Hero KcKs in BB, makes it 120.

V call, others fold.

4c7hTs.

H bets 90. Call.

Turn Jc.

Hero?

I'd lean double barrel/decide after we bet 90 into almost 300. We kept villain's range-wide on the flop, which is fine on that board imo. Barreling should get another bet out of AQ/AJ/QQ, KQ as well but we block any combos containing a Kx. Having Kc blocks most combo draws villain has (AQcc should be the only remaining in his 3b calling range). 98 got there, but not sure how wide MP 3b calling range is, but I wouldn't start assining villain any turned straights just yet.

Anyways, DB imo on that turn but if we x, xc and probably x again on the river. Please provide eff stacks. If you're about 500 eff to start the hand, cbet slightly larger and set up a turn shove.
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Old 05-18-2021, 03:40 AM   #3
OmahaDonk
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Re: Check an overpair like a wimp?

If you have 700 or less you should just jam. If he cracked you then he deserves to double
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Old 05-18-2021, 03:48 AM   #4
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Re: Check an overpair like a wimp?

Sorry, we were about 800 effective.
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Old 05-18-2021, 06:37 AM   #5
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Re: Check an overpair like a wimp?

I'm fine with checking the turn if our intention is to call/bet the river.
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Old 05-18-2021, 06:43 AM   #6
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Re: Check an overpair like a wimp?

Not really worried about getting cracked but do think you’re making a commitment decision. It’s probably best to have this be a two bet hand and I’m not sure what worse hands are calling the turn bet. There’s not a ton of realistic draws that didn’t already get there and depending on your image, worse hands might call a river bet if he checks the turn.

Maybe results oriented, but I think you can probably check turn and evaluate his bet size if he elects to do that. River will play itself for the most part when that happens.
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Old 05-18-2021, 07:44 AM   #7
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Re: Check an overpair like a wimp?

OOP, I like a X/C. Vs a winning opponent, this is a 2-street hand.

Alternatively, a 1/3 PSB might get value from ATs/99.
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Old 05-18-2021, 08:26 AM   #8
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Re: Check an overpair like a wimp?

I think it comes down to whether you want to be the aggressor and bet $175-$250, or be passive and potentially cry call $175-$250. One thing's for sure: if the table sees your overpair after checking two streets, you're going to become a target for future raises.

With this overpair I think you have to keep betting as if you have the best hand until V suggests otherwise.
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Old 05-18-2021, 09:19 AM   #9
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Re: Check an overpair like a wimp?

Nothing wrong with a bet flop, c/c turn, c/c river line with an overpair (or b/f river if turn checks through). It’s probably my default with an overpair against an aggressive opponent or on a dryish static board (being more likely to bet turn if there are a ton of draws that can call). This board is in the middle so I could go either way. But checking an overpair isn’t weak or “wimpy”, and there’s nothing wrong with making a passive play as long as you have a reason for it.
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Old 05-18-2021, 10:32 AM   #10
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Re: Check an overpair like a wimp?

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I think it comes down to whether you want to be the aggressor and bet $175-$250, or be passive and potentially cry call $175-$250. One thing's for sure: if the table sees your overpair after checking two streets, you're going to become a target for future raises.

With this overpair I think you have to keep betting as if you have the best hand until V suggests otherwise.
Good way to accidentally get pot committed and not know what to do.
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Old 05-18-2021, 10:47 AM   #11
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Re: Check an overpair like a wimp?

I'd check. Turn is better for his range as he's more likely to have JTs, 98s, and can still have some of the flopped sets that you don't have. The SPR is low enough that flopped sets aren't hugely incentivized to raise. When he bets it's not the best bluffcatcher you can have since you block two KQs floats but you probably have to call. Unless he jams it or something you still beat some hands that are betting for value/equity denial against AK/AQ.
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Old 05-18-2021, 01:06 PM   #12
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Re: Check an overpair like a wimp?

I'm betting this turn with the intention of getting it in on most rivers. Your small flop bet allows him to float with all of his pairs and some of his two over card with BDST BDFD potential.

I am firing 250-350 on this turn and likely putting in the rest on the river. If he flopped a set we are getting stacked no matter how we play this turn.

He has 2 combos of TJs, 3 combos of JJ, and 4 combos of 89s (which I am not sure call your 3!) which improved to beat you on this turn.

We are beating all combos of AJs, ATs, and T9s, as well as QQ, 99, and 88.

Seems to me like a good spot to deny equity and avoid giving a free card.
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Old 05-18-2021, 01:24 PM   #13
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Re: Check an overpair like a wimp?

As played, I'm betting 1/3 pot again and then if he shoves its close.

I'd go with my live read but lean towards folding.

In theory it's a call but live villians don't have enough bluffs so it's a really **** spot

If turn bet is called I'm jamming brick rivers and c/cing the others except aces tens and maybe queens

But I wouldn't have bet third on the flop. This is a big bet/check type of board imo. I would mostly be betting but I'd go 3/4 pot. It's not a wet board but it is dynamic (meaning most turn cards change it drastically) so I don't want to have to play a guessing game by keeping his range so wide
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Old 05-18-2021, 01:27 PM   #14
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Re: Check an overpair like a wimp?

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Originally Posted by tdammon View Post
Seems to me like a good spot to deny equity and avoid giving a free card.
I really disagree with this. This isn't an equity denial spot at all. V doesn't have many draws and our hand isn't vulnerable.
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Old 05-19-2021, 01:44 AM   #15
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Re: Check an overpair like a wimp?

Results: Hero thinks of various instructional videos he has perhaps misinterpreted and bets half pot. V folds.

After the hand, I thought "am I targeting like QQ exactly here?" Not so much that I was afraid of JT, TT, JJ, 44, 89s, as I think he just folds everything else.

Thanks for the useful replies. I think he could have floated pretty light given the small size, even in a 3 bet pot, as others pointed out. So maybe he does have some KQ or even AJ. Maybe 88, 99.

Another baby bet would be better, as others suggested. But a check could be fine. My bet was bad.
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Old 05-20-2021, 08:04 AM   #16
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Re: Check an overpair like a wimp?

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Another baby bet would be better, as others suggested. But a check could be fine. My bet was bad.
But you won, so there's that.
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Old 05-20-2021, 05:25 PM   #17
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Re: Check an overpair like a wimp?

In theory I think we’re probably supposed to mix betting small (~30% pot) and checking. SPR is only ~2 OTF, so there’s a lot of value in betting small on turns. Solvers often like to do stuff like this in 4 bet pots, which we might as well be in considering the SPR. I don’t know there’s much point in doing any size besides a very small one or a shove. 50% just seems weird. Small bet is nice because we put stuff like AQ/66 in annoying spot
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