Hero: early 20s white guy. Played many hours with the two villains but Just sat down at the table.
Villain 1: NIT. King of the hero fold. Tight style with very little game. Still plays for a living.
Villain 2: mid 30s asain guy. Solid TAG. Has some game but is solid. Sizes very big. One of the better regs at the casino.


Hero just sat down and max Buy 500. Few hands go by and I get dealt AA on the BTN. Both villains cover.

I open to 20.

Both villains call in blinds.

Pot: 60

Flop: KJ9ss. (We have no spade).

Checks to me and I decide to check behind.

Turn is 5s. Checks to villain 2 in BB and he bets 50.

I fold.

I can explain logic later but I may get flamed for this.

Oh well. All feedback welcome

Side note. I changed seats ASAP.

Pre - You seem a little afraid of/intimidated by both Vs in the blind. If that's the case, you should go slightly bigger on the BTN, maybe $25 or 30, which will make post-flop a little easier. If you want to get really tricky you could limp hoping one of them tries to steal it.

Flop - You should bet here. You can get value from a lot of worse hands, including pair + gut shot and spade draws.

Turn - Once you check flop, I check/call turn.

No idea why you're playing so tight/passive here. If V1 is a nit, betting flop at least folds him out and avoids him drawing to beat you when he'll never put money in with worse.

Has nothing to do with fear. I play vs these villains all the time, at higher stakes even.

Why check the flop though? Why fold turn? You seem to be taking an extremely exploitative line on the view that these guys never call with hands that lose to one pair.

$15 pre.

Sometimes just bet flop vs described players with non black AA but checking is fine.

Yikes don't fold turn. His sizing is big but you said he does that in description and there's tons of worse he can be betting for value here

I actually don't mind the check back on the flop against two opponents. It protects our checking range, and we're never getting three streets of value out of this board anyway. Plus there's a LOT of turn cards that will suck for us, so pot control is fine.

But none of that means anything if you don't call the turn. Your hand is super underrepped. Even nit Vs will bet Kx here, especially if they also hold a spade. AA is well ahead of their ranges.

If you were going to fold turn like this, you needed to bet the flop.

Flop I'd prefer checking a hand like AK to AA too much Kx to get value from.

Don't think we can fold turn V can be betting for value with worse and can have tons of bluffs.

Which cards were spades on the flop?


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I feel like OP is saying "I know I played this hand really oddly but I had my reasons and I'm not going to tell you but regardless of the feedback I'm convinced I had really good reasons"

With the info we have:
flop check back isn't necessarily horrible and isn't necessarily best
as played you must call turn

Now go ahead and give us the secret reasoning and get flamed.

+1

Agree with most. I would bet flop, but as played, I definitely call turn.

This.

If you have more history, then please tell us this history.
Do know you know that he only leads strong OOP when scare cards hit?
Do you know that he doesn't play back at you ever?

Do you know that he will only bet a super strong range when V1 is in the hand or something?

This just screams 'stroke my ego' and not 'help me play better'.

+1

So tilting

this

think OP misclicked and meant to post in BBV

Alright Jesus Christ. I decided to post this hand to see what everyone thought IF I folded turn because after the hand I thought maybe I should be folding. I felt it would create a better discussion then just actually posting how the hand went down.

I called the 50. The SB nit folded.

River brought the As. It went c/c and the villain showed. 76ss.

The reason I posted the hand this way was because I felt like my line of checking flop and calling turn was pretty standard. After the hand I felt like I may want to just get away on the turn but felt like with how I checked flop my hand was way too good to be giving up here. I beat all Ks combos ect.

I didn't mean to tilt you guys but I like I said seemed more intresting to me if anyone would advise getting away on the turn.

As far as the flop check goes I just decided that it was going to be hard to get 3 streets from solid regs and felt like I would call down most turn and rivers. If checked to me I would bet most turns.

Anyways sorry for tilting anyone.

So to be clear, you posted a hand which had one street of post flop betting that you yourself described as "pretty standard"?

AA has too much equity against BB's range to fold turn. We can also bluff spade rivers if he checks to us.

I would rather bet flop and check turn but I expect the out come is about the same. Villain made a mistake by not betting river, it's hard for you to have a higher flush but you have two pair/sets/straights that might pay off something.

That is actually a fairly safe flop for you. You opened to $20 from the button, villains have to figure you are super wide. Most of the hands that hit that flop reraise preflop. They are not calling a small pot out of the blinds with QT type hands. Spade draws are your biggest concern and you should charge them on the flop.

Giving up on the turn is silly with the over pair when the BB bets. You could make a case if the SB had bet into two opponents that he probably beats one pair but BB can be stabbing with anything after you check the flop.

FWIW there isn't a big problem with checking flop imo. I do wonder if we prefer to have the As, I go back and forth for a variety of reasons.

I think big thing being lost here is pre sizing. I love to 3x AA here bc you induce alot of spew in these situations. Most folks are used to chopping once it folds to btn. 3x them to death.

On the turn, if they have offsuit broadway combos (they do) in their range then they just have a ton of worse value combos. KxQ, QxJ, JxT AJx, ATx are the pretty strong holdings (I'm not sure which cards are spades otf but you get it) They also just have the random value combos like Kx, QJ, etc.

It does suck he bet big which is indicative of pretty big strength but we can call turn and fold river. We can also bluff certain spade rivers, or sometimes we suck out on other rivers (counterfeiting 2pr for example)

It's a crummy flop and it's thin on the turn, but def peel one off after checking back flop, which is fine.

Pretty routine hand and wp imo. No legit reason to fold turn nor bluff this river.

Can someone expand a bit more on why checking flop is good here? The board run out is likely to get scary but nit villain will play straight up, we have 3 streets of value vs KQ and if we get raises by non nit we can call and re-evaluate.

You really think 2 professional players are gonna give me (another pro) 3 streets of value with KQ? To be fair Villian 2 would squeeze with KQ at a high frequency anyways.

If V2 squeezes KQ preflop, then I think the check makes sense. If V2 doesnt squeeze KQ preflop do you still think there is only 2 streets of value on this board if turn and river are dry? Are there so many scards to come that we can assume there are likely only 2 streets of value (dependent on likelihood of turn or river shutting down action)?

Curious here to try and determine the thinking behind this. It could be a leak in my game.

Pot control, under-repping his hand. He'll want to give up a lot of his nothing hands (67dd, 44, A2o, etc) on this flop, so it's good to balance with some stronger hands as well. He's rarely getting 3 streets from worse unimproved here anyway.

This is the worst OP i have seen in a while