I would say these stations arise maybe once a month, and they always leave me scratching my head when I'm towards the middle/bottom of my range. (1/1 STAKES but playing like a typical 1-2 or even 1-3 at times)

Hero BTN (500bb): New to the casino and has ran a stack up from 200 to 500 with fairly standard play, has almost always had value at showdown and has bluffed a few times (c/r turn, 3-betting pre as a semi bluff in position ect) but these hands haven't been shown so villain(s) likely sees hero as a competent TAG or maybe even further along the NIT spectrum due to only showing value hands.

Villain 1 SB: (Covers)
Seems competent but extremely loose, appears to be a typical young asian type player, very loose pre flop (called an all-in with 56ss for 100bb 'to get revenge' on someone who sucked out on his previously) but seems to have conceptions of ranging and post-flop play. Doesn't have much direct hand history with hero over the 3 hours of play, seems to be staying out of my way (and vise-versa to some extent)

Villain 2 UTG+2 (22bbs): Almost irrelevant (although he proves not to be) short stack shoving any broadways

*THE HAND*

UTG staddles to 2bbs, UTG+1 and 2 call (Villain 2) 2bbs, folded around to hero on the button with A J who makes it 10BBs (seems small thinking about it now but this was standard)

This is where the hand gets interesting, I won't post results just the narrative...

Villain 1 (Covers) calls 10bb's, fold, villain 2 (22bb's) shoves...
Folded back around to hero who raises to 80 to isolate and show strength, and Villain 1 shoves for 500 effective...
- As a side note, villain 2 showed no signs of shoving prior to action being on him, so this reduces the chances of villain slow playing due to anticipation of a shove

HERO?

It absolutely sucks being at the bottom of my range here, but what do people think about situations like this in general when villain's range appears to be capped? I will post more of my thoughts about the raise to 80 and the results as the post unfolds.

Also, I use the terms 'competent' and 'decent' ect in relation to the stakes, I don't want to see 'lol there's no such thing as good post flop play/good players at 1/1 get good n00b'

Thanks guys

Seems like an easy fold.

In this exact spot since I'm at the bottom of my range, maybe yes. I'm just interested to see hear how people range villain and if that differs to how I did, and some notes about situations like this in general

I think your raise to 80 preflop is too big. You can accomplish the same thing with a raise to 60 or even 50. You really don't mind getting called by V1: You have position; your hand is ahead of his preflop calling range; you have a hand that plays well post-flop; and you're really deep, so your positional advantage goes up. Raising small also makes it less likely that V1 shoves and costs you less when he does.

If you really want to be sure to see a flop, you could make your initial raise 13BBs instead of 10BBs. That way V2 can't reopen the betting when he shoves (if your cardroom plays with that rule). That said, you probably want the betting reopened if the short stack shoves, since you correctly determine that you have a great hand to isolate with.

Without knowing more about V1, it's hard to range him. Some players will have AK here or medium pocket pairs. If the straddle had been very active, I could see him showing up with AA or KK, expecting the straddle stack to raise. Same if you have been active on the button, and it sounds like you have, since you describe yourself as "3-betting pre as a semi bluff in position."

It's definitely a fold once he shoves.

Did you reraise to 80 or 80BB? Anyway, it maybe tempting to call an "extremely aggressive" V here, but it's just too loose. He likely has a pretty wide range, like 88-TT and better and maybe bluffing some medium SC:s etc but not enough to merit a call. 500bb is too deep to stack off with AJ.

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In general, I assume LLSNL V's aren't putting their entire, big stack in without a very strong hand, in this case I'd expect KK+ and more likely AA. He might have hoped for V2's shove and figured he could get you for the extra 12 BB. That's unusual, as it shows more awareness of the game than I'd expect from LLSNL players, but it does happen.

I've also seen people do this with AK when something in the action makes them think anyone else in the hand isn't that strong (or when they have to either fold or call a big raise).

Whichever one it is, he's caught you. Against KK+, AK you're crushed. You're not getting the odds to call even if he just has a small PP. He doesn't have air, since he called your raise (and I'm not giving an LLSNL V credit for planning a preflop bluff shove when he calls your 10).

Only against someone willing to shove their entire, huge stack with AT or less can you call and that's very unlikely IMO.

tl;dr until I've got a solid read that V is a bluff monkey for big money, big bets = big hands and we're weak against that range.

V2's range is good hands not strong enough to raise the first time, favoring middle pocket pairs. With really big hands he raises himself most of the time and the real garbage folds. So probably something like AQo, AJ, ATs, JJ-88, possibly some KQs-T9s and worse pairs. Open it up a bit if he is tilted.

V1's range is harder to judge because it depends on what V1 thinks your isolation range is. I suspect V1 thinks you can be isolating pretty wide since anything worth raising to 10BB in the first place is worth calling a 22BB shove. Would you flat or raise smaller if you actually had a big hand?

The weird thing is that in some ways your isolation raise is actually too big here. You raised so much that even if V2 beats V1 on the main pot V1 comes out ahead if he can steal the side pot. This gives him a reason to shove pretty light when you are so much deeper then V2. A good way to look at this type of situation is that despite V2 shoving you are really still playing V1 as your primary opponent because your effective stack is so much deeper against him.

The problem is that your are at the bottom of your range, so even knowing that V1 can be light there isn't much you can do but fold. Because of that you may want to flat V2's shove. Sometimes even fold in situations like this where an aggressive opponent can still act after you because you can't stand a reraise.

I raised to 80, which is also 80bbs


If I had a big hand I would have made a similarly sized raise. Although it's tempting, I wouldn't slow play against this villain as they are very loose pre.

It's interesting because post hand villain said that he would expect me to have gone EVEN BIGGER if I had a hand like KK-AA, which I found strange because I figured 80 is a decent size. Is 80 really too big in this spot for value hands?