£1/£2 NL
Hero (£220) on Button has very tight image, has also been seen to slowplay the nuts. UTG (£100) has relatively tight image. LP (£350) has fairly LAG image and has been seen to make a pot sized big river value bet with the Ac on a 4 club board. Players are not fish but don't know quite how good they are.

Hero holds 3h5h.
UTG raises to £8, LP calls, Hero calls, blinds fold.

Flop QhJc10h

UTG bets £16, LP calls, Hero calls.

Turn 5s

UTG keeps looking across at hero and hero tries to make it look like he's going to bet. UTG eventually decides to check, LP checks and Hero takes free card.

River 4h

UTG bets £30, LP raises to £85, Hero?

My analysis:
1) UTG has premium starting hand. At best has straight, or more likely overpair or TPTK. His river bet is either a value bet or a blocker bet.
2) LP has played this hand very much like a flush draw, possibly also a straight draw. Takes free card rather than semi-bluffing due to image of other two players.

Easy fold.

Thanks.

I did fold, but it was quite out of character for me to do that!

UTG folded too, so I still don't know if I did the right thing.

Fold pre. 35 is still 35 even if sooooted. Look you made your flush and still folded remember that for next time.

Folding here...you have a low flush and your up against a raise with the original aggressor on the river still to act. You need a very strong hand to continue from here...

Trouble with playing low flush draws at times on these type of boards...

Toss your cards into the muck before the flop comes.

Fold. Let's look at the board and reason what LP can raise with. Any other made hand, such as two pair, set, straight, will NOT be raising as they're afraid of the flush, since what the heck are you calling with on the flop and checking the turn? For a lot of tight players they'd even be afraid to raise Queen high flushes, afraid of players behind them to have a higher flush.

Unless this guy is David Benyamine and knows that you're nursing a baby flush behind him and wants to turn his hand into a bluff knowing that you'd fold to action, this is a fold 99% of the time. Being in tune with your opponents and knowing their tendencies is key in these situations; don't let the absolute strength of your hand get you to make bad calls. Good fold.

This is a standard fold.

Only way this is a call is if we notice the LAG floating and stealing fairly often in other hands. If that is the case, we can actually call here. But barring that information/read, folding here is standard.

My last comment is on labels, be careful with labels, the term "LAG" gets thrown around way too much on here. If V was a "true" LAG then that actually makes this more of a call than a fold.

A LAG would/should have a lot of OESD hands in his range here, Kx and 9x hands that can/should go for a bluff on a whiffed river repping a flush that they don't have. I would also expect a LAG to float more with intent to steal when a scare card hits.

But that is based on "my" definition of a LAG which might be different from your definition. What I've found to be the case on here is that people will call loose players "LAG" when in reality being loose doesn't necessarily make you a LAG. You can be loose passive or loose neutral or just plain old loose without being aggro.

just saying, try to be more precise in your description of villain so you can take the appropriate action and be careful with labels.

anyways, fold is fine here...

who folds flop?

If you called the preflop raise and also called the flop bet...,
Why folding when you got what you've looking for?
You did play 35 for some flush.., did you

As everyone else said, fold 53s pf. In addition, you don't have a tight image if you are calling UTG raises with 53s. I'll re-emphasize dgiharris's point that it doesn't matter what you call anything, but if you expect to communicate with others clearly and learn from what others write, you need to understand what the commonly used terms actually mean. If you deviating from your normal pattern, say so in the OP.

What are we doing with the J high flush on the river here? Just curious. (Nevermind potentially raising for value on the flop which would have changed the whole dynamic of the hand.)

I assume the K high flush is a snap call?

Thanks for all the comments. It's reassuring to know that people agree (in general), and gives me more confidence to make big folds (something I'm not great at).

Whether I should have played the hand at all is a fair question, although given my image (which I can then exploit) and position, I don't think it's all that bad - plus to be honest I am there to have fun, and hadn't picked up any playable hands in a while.

I think should find a fold on the flop. However, surely the reason I couldn't trust it when I hit was as a result of the subsequent action? Had it been different then I could have value bet it.


I said I have a "very tight image", which is true.
I played just 1 other hand in over an hour of being at the table at this point (the other hand being the slowplaying of the virtual nuts).
Whether playing 35s is "deviating from a normal pattern" is irrelevant, provided you trust the above statement?

Realistically I'm not good enough to find a fold with either Jack or King high flush.
I think MP might well be more aggro than he played ith with the nut flush draw too.

If you even have to consider whether this is a call or fold then you should be folding pre.

Why I asked you why did you played for a raise with 35 preflop is because the less you play these type of hands the more money you'll be making. Now, the fold on the flop would have been an improvement but a better one would not even get you into so much trouble (fold pre)

Suited one gaper under Ten is garbage. The lowest you can go is two suited Brodways part of straight-flush or Royal. And even that only in position if the pot figures to be multiway with deep stacks. And even in this ideal situation be very carefull when you flop two pair. With any two suited Broadways flopping two pair you should expect heavy action all the way to the river.

That's the way the game goes. It becomes very transparent after you get some experience under your belt.

I don't mean to be a dick and piss all over your parade, but I find that a lot of noobs talk the talk about "exploiting this" and "outplaying that" and "post flop this" and "use my image that..."

but when all is said and down, you just called with a crap hand, tried to get lucky post flop, and drew to a baby flush.

I mean, where was all your exploiting your image? How would you have played this hand if you had AA or KK or QQ? WHere is your 3-bet? Where is your post flop raise? Where is your over the top shove???

Part of becoming a better player is being honest with yourself. ANd if you are honest with yourself you are probably overestimating your ability to "exploit your image" and in reality are just trying to flop/turn/river gin and get lucky.

When we call with SCs and S1Gs we need to have a very clear plan on how we can EXPLOIT our villains.

It needs to be more than just "I haven't raised or played a hand in an hour, therefore they have to see me as tight and respect me."

Big deal. That doesn't mean a whole lot if your villain is a Calling Station or an aggro spew monkey or a level 1 mouth breathing knuckle dragger.

Sorry, I don't know how else to say this without being harsh, but you are in all likelihood overestimating your post flop abilities as evident by this hand. Again, where and how exactly are you exploiting your image in this hand? Truth is, you aren't. You are just trying to get lucky with garbage.

Profitably playing SCs and S1Gs is more than just trying to get lucky and bink on flop and turn.

Almost certainly fair.


Why is there no crying emoticon?

Because have you ever seen Dick Whitman cry or use emoticons? I didn't think so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syacksXFOgo

FYI beginner players always like to do that when they want a free card. Whenever I see someone acting behind me reach for his chips while I look at him I always bet large-ish.