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Can you find a fold here? Can you find a fold here?

02-21-2015 , 07:02 AM
$1/$2 Live
Stacks $300 (hero) and $400 Villain.

V1: V is a 35yr old Polynesian looiking looking man. He is loose passive pre-flop and tends to be on the flop as well. I saw him call, call on a board with a J and K on it with 99. When he hit river (set of nines) he bet big. He is a guy I would value bet very often.

V2: LAG Asian kid -25yrs old maybe. Kind of a reckless LAG type that I think is a little tipsy tonight.

Hero: TAG image and V knows Im a reg.

Hero raises in UTG+2 with AK. V1 calls on BTN. V2 calls in SB.

Pot= $35 (ish)
Flop: 4A5

V2 checks. Hero bets $25. V1 calls. V2 folds.

Pot=$85

Turn: 6

Hero checks. V1 bets $50.

I checked here as the SPR was high and I did not want to play for stacks and build a big pot here.

V's bet of $50 was weird to me. I have not seen him play big bluffs before.

What do you put him on? And can you find a fold here is it snap call/ raise?
Can you find a fold here? Quote
02-21-2015 , 07:20 AM
You have to snap call after you check but you should of just bet because if he raises you may be able to find a fold. As played you now do not know where you are at against a LAG because he could think you are weak and giving up on the hand. Bet turn AP call and probably check call river too since he will be bluffing often. Only rivers I think about folding as played are 2d, 3d, 7d maybe 4 and 5 of diamonds too.
Can you find a fold here? Quote
02-21-2015 , 07:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wager9
V1:I saw him call, call on a board with a J and K on it with 99. When he hit river (set of nines) he bet big. He is a guy I would value bet very often.
Quote:
I checked here as the SPR was high and I did not want to play for stacks and build a big pot here.


bet/fold turn, as played call
Can you find a fold here? Quote
02-21-2015 , 07:54 AM
I'm guessing he has a set here,could be a weak ace that hit two pair on the turn.
But could also be JUST a weak ace he thinks is good.
Probably gotta call here and evaluate the river.
Not raising here very often,not against this type of v.
Folding would be my last option at this point.
Can you find a fold here? Quote
02-21-2015 , 08:24 AM
I would only check on the turn if my plan is to call a bet. Otherwise, bet the turn.
Can you find a fold here? Quote
02-21-2015 , 09:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
I would only check on the turn if my plan is to call a bet. Otherwise, bet the turn.
this

regarding river not sure if we should block bet or check/decide tho
Can you find a fold here? Quote
02-21-2015 , 10:21 AM
Why not bet the turn? We can easily bet/fold for value when villain has Ax. We can fold when V turns a straight or makes aces up.

Not really sure what checking the turn accomplishes here other than making this a guessing game.
Can you find a fold here? Quote
02-21-2015 , 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by br3nt00
this

regarding river not sure if we should block bet or check/decide tho
Its gonna depend on the card, of course. But in a vacuum I would lean towards $100 on the river to target worse aces. x/C if we want to induce which may be ideal if we think v is now betting the turn with a pair and SD and missed the river.
Can you find a fold here? Quote
02-21-2015 , 10:35 AM
AP fold to described V
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02-21-2015 , 11:09 AM
What differences does one find between a LAG Asian kid, or old Asian LAG or young/old white LAG, or young/old African or African-American LAG, or young/old Indian LAG, young/old Polynesian LAG, young/old Native-American LAG?
Is there any difference between a female/male LAG. What about a LAG you've labeled as gay/lesbian due to their mannerisms or other reason?

I've always found a LAG to be a LAG. I have, however, found a difference between a drunk/stoned/sober LAG. Those near an alcoholic blackout are the best to be playing against because they become oblivious to what's going on. Stoned LAGs tend to mellow out more. Both play worse when mentally impaired.

I've found sober LAGs that are better than other LAGs but I've not been able to say that the majority of intelligent LAGs are young/old or a specific race.

Drunk white redneck LAGs can be a helluva firecracker to deal with [until they near the black-out stage], however, so can any other drunk LAG of any race when he/she has a high blood/alcohol count but not yet come close to the blackout stage.

Rich, recreational LAGs are great to have at the table, but I've found them to come in all races/gender and ages. Maybe someone has played against a rich/Jewish diamond trader who is a good/bad LAG?

What about a Russian LAG who, based on his friends that come by, lead you to believe he may be mob connected? Is he a specific kind of LAG as opposed to other LAGs?

I do have a tendency to stereotype LAGs who pull out a wad of cash to rebuy as opposed to those who go to the atm machine.

Reminds me of my father back in the 60s/70s identifying people by race. Statements like: "Ive got this black guy doing a good a job handling this or that responsibility at work."
Can you find a fold here? Quote
02-21-2015 , 11:28 AM
As played, call, but I would have b/f turn.

Race helps describe players, as does sex. Sorry, but it's true. Gives us a picture of how they play based on our own experiences, whether they are LAG or anything else. You might think it's racist, but it's just stereotyping, and there are stereotypes for a reason. (BTW, I'm a complete left-wing liberal woman, and I have completely different opinions about how women play and how men play whether they are LAGs, TAGs or anything else.)
Can you find a fold here? Quote
02-21-2015 , 11:47 AM
I much prefer bet folding, especially vs villians like V1. That way, you are not playing a guessing game. You could bet about $40 on the turn.
Can you find a fold here? Quote
02-21-2015 , 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
As played, call, but I would have b/f turn.

Race helps describe players, as does sex. Sorry, but it's true. Gives us a picture of how they play based on our own experiences, whether they are LAG or anything else. You might think it's racist, but it's just stereotyping, and there are stereotypes for a reason. (BTW, I'm a complete left-wing liberal woman, and I have completely different opinions about how women play and how men play whether they are LAGs, TAGs or anything else.)
I can't buy into that line of thinking. I have played women who are strong LAGs and bet multiple streets hard with a medium hand to buy the pot & I've played male LAGs [young/old of any race] who will put the brakes on when they should have fired another barrel.

I played an extremely good TAG/LAG female about 3 weeks ago, pushing 30, who pushed so hard, I'd swear she was a brute male if it weren't for the fact that she was so good looking.

If you tell me your opponent is a female LAG, it doesn't tell me anything unless, I know in advance that your definition of a "female LAG" means X. I need to know why you consider the player inferior to a male LAG.
Two female LAGs could be inferior to what you consider a standard male LAG for different reasons.

A "Polynesian LAG" tells me squat. It would be like telling me you're up against a LAG who is a member of the Black Panthers. Useless information to me when it comes to pinning down the type of LAG player they are.
Can you find a fold here? Quote
02-21-2015 , 11:57 AM
Grunch.

So your description says that your opponent is fishy and that you would want to value bet him often... then you proceed to flop TPTK and the check the turn. I really don't mean to be rude or anything, but seriously, read your own post!!!!! You state that you know what the correct play is and then fail to follow through. You should be bet/folding all three streets.
Can you find a fold here? Quote
02-21-2015 , 06:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZuneIt
What differences does one find between a LAG Asian kid, or old Asian LAG or young/old white LAG, or young/old African or African-American LAG, or young/old Indian LAG, young/old Polynesian LAG, young/old Native-American LAG?
Is there any difference between a female/male LAG. What about a LAG you've labeled as gay/lesbian due to their mannerisms or other reason?

I've always found a LAG to be a LAG. I have, however, found a difference between a drunk/stoned/sober LAG. Those near an alcoholic blackout are the best to be playing against because they become oblivious to what's going on. Stoned LAGs tend to mellow out more. Both play worse when mentally impaired.

I've found sober LAGs that are better than other LAGs but I've not been able to say that the majority of intelligent LAGs are young/old or a specific race.

Drunk white redneck LAGs can be a helluva firecracker to deal with [until they near the black-out stage], however, so can any other drunk LAG of any race when he/she has a high blood/alcohol count but not yet come close to the blackout stage.

Rich, recreational LAGs are great to have at the table, but I've found them to come in all races/gender and ages. Maybe someone has played against a rich/Jewish diamond trader who is a good/bad LAG?

What about a Russian LAG who, based on his friends that come by, lead you to believe he may be mob connected? Is he a specific kind of LAG as opposed to other LAGs?

I do have a tendency to stereotype LAGs who pull out a wad of cash to rebuy as opposed to those who go to the atm machine.

Reminds me of my father back in the 60s/70s identifying people by race. Statements like: "Ive got this black guy doing a good a job handling this or that responsibility at work."
LMFAO! Funny!
You will find as you read and write and play I guess that yes...people often describe physical descriptions in posts. There are generalizations that can be made. For example, without any other info...an 80 yr old white guy in a wheel chair - in general - is going to, IMO, play less LAG than a 22 yr old Asian kid with a hoodie, Beats Headphones and doing chip flourishes with both hands.
Can you find a fold here? Quote
02-21-2015 , 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZuneIt

A "Polynesian LAG" tells me squat. It would be like telling me you're up against a LAG who is a member of the Black Panthers. Useless information to me when it comes to pinning down the type of LAG player they are.
Zune...I try and paint the best picture I can of the situation I was in, including all physical descriptions. Most people make generalizations based on physicality in live poker forum posting. If you do not, that's fine, juts look beyond that stuff knowing that others do use it.
Can you find a fold here? Quote
02-21-2015 , 06:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wager9

22 yr old Asian kid with a hoodie, Beats Headphones and doing chip flourishes with both hands.
Position Nits
Can you find a fold here? Quote
02-21-2015 , 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaNEWPr0fess0r
Grunch.

So your description says that your opponent is fishy and that you would want to value bet him often... then you proceed to flop TPTK and the check the turn. I really don't mean to be rude or anything, but seriously, read your own post!!!!! You state that you know what the correct play is and then fail to follow through. You should be bet/folding all three streets.
No need to apologise, I don't consider it rude bro.

I did say he was fishy and that I'd value bet him often. I also said though, that I did see him play a hand similar a few hands back and that when he bet out he had gotten a luck card. I mentioned in my post that he is Loose Passive pre and on post. I was only putting this out there because I was curious how most folks respond to an LP who comes to life all of a sudden on the turn.

I considered how he views me - he views me as a good player. But he is not the type who who wants to outplay me for any ego reasons.

I also certainly considered betting here but opted for pot control so checked. My intention was to chk/ call but I doubted he would bet as he is LP...unless he hit something big (again this was based on my read from an earlier hand of him). So my chk for pot control would keep the pot small so I could do any number of things on the river.

Let me ask this- if we bet turn of say $50 and he calls. The pot is now $185 and we have about $200 left (and V covers). Do you b/f the river or chk/ call or how do you proceed on the river?
Can you find a fold here? Quote
02-21-2015 , 08:25 PM
Bet turn, shove river.

As played, I dunno, I just don't understand the purpose of checking, so it's not possible for me to give you any advice now. Call I guess, but meh.
Can you find a fold here? Quote
02-21-2015 , 08:26 PM
This is not the time for pot control.
Can you find a fold here? Quote
02-21-2015 , 08:34 PM
This guy may view A 10 as a monster here. Bet bet shove.
Can you find a fold here? Quote
02-21-2015 , 08:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wager9
No need to apologise, I don't consider it rude bro.

I did say he was fishy and that I'd value bet him often. I also said though, that I did see him play a hand similar a few hands back and that when he bet out he had gotten a luck card. I mentioned in my post that he is Loose Passive pre and on post. I was only putting this out there because I was curious how most folks respond to an LP who comes to life all of a sudden on the turn.

I considered how he views me - he views me as a good player. But he is not the type who who wants to outplay me for any ego reasons.

I also certainly considered betting here but opted for pot control so checked. My intention was to chk/ call but I doubted he would bet as he is LP...unless he hit something big (again this was based on my read from an earlier hand of him). So my chk for pot control would keep the pot small so I could do any number of things on the river.

Let me ask this- if we bet turn of say $50 and he calls. The pot is now $185 and we have about $200 left (and V covers). Do you b/f the river or chk/ call or how do you proceed on the river?
Depending on the river card, you can plan to b/f something like $70-$100. I find that people will respond on this forum that you should bet X OTF, Y OTT, and then shove the river for Z... but in reality it's both much easier to be and "arm chair bet sizer" so to speak, in addition to the fact that if we size our bet's on the larger side so that we can get all-in, we will often lose our customer OTT or OTR. Even really fishy players can find folds with A2 if we bet $70 OTT and jam all-in OTR. They will almost never fold if you bet $50 OTT then $80 OTR. But yeah, in short you should be look for three streets of value with this hand.
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