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Can we still continue despite turning top 2 pairs on the turn? Can we still continue despite turning top 2 pairs on the turn?

10-15-2018 , 06:58 PM
Live €1/2 full ring
In this particular hand, there is a straddle to €5 from UTG
Straddler has €500 before this hand

UTG+1 (Stack €500) opens to €15
I (Stack €400) sat in UTG+2 and looked down K Q and called
BB (Starting stack of €100 only) called and straddler called so 4 way to the flop
Pot: €61

Flop: 44K

BB checked then the straddler decided to lead (pretty weird play) for €30 - his range can definitely have a 4 although I have seen him donk leading with a flush draw a couple of times also
UTG+1 called
Flop advice? I called also - (although, with hindsight, by calling in this spot, it almost as if it has given my hand away of being a weak K as I am unlikely to have that many AK, KK in this spot given my call pre-flop)
BB decided to call in the end as well so we are still 4 way to the turn
Pot: €181

Turn: Q
BB and straddler checked then UTG+1 decided to bet out for €60
We turned top 2 but I am still not feeling particularly comfortable in this spot

The only hand that kind of makes sense from UTG+1 point of view is exactly QQ given we have a Q and another Q onboard, if we give him credit for this one combo only and no other bluffs or semi-bluffs then I guess I have to fold, however, I couldn't think of that many others hands he can raise pre, call flop then lead turn for value, A4? Is he however also going to bluff into 4 people though?
In my shoes, by calling, it leaves door to the straddler who might check-raise the turn if indeed he has a strong 4
Turn seems to be a good card for me but I am really unsure what to do here actually

As played, I called, BB called for less and straddler called also so 4 way to a river card of 8

Straddler ended up checking and UTG+1 shoved. Hero??

I don't think I could 3b pre either as we are very likely to be running into AK, AQ there (UTG+1 sat down only a short while ago so unsure how wide he opens) - should I fold the flop? Again, I doubt so too.

Any advice is greatly appreciated about this hand.

Last edited by Garick; 10-15-2018 at 08:03 PM. Reason: Removed results
Can we still continue despite turning top 2 pairs on the turn? Quote
10-15-2018 , 08:03 PM
Quote:
The only hand that kind of makes sense from UTG+1 point of view is exactly QQ given
Edit:.note that comment came from the turn, not the river...

wat? What about KhXh, other KQ combos, QdXd, etc.?

Also, don't post results, as it biases advice. I edited them out.

Last edited by Garick; 10-15-2018 at 08:52 PM.
Can we still continue despite turning top 2 pairs on the turn? Quote
10-15-2018 , 08:22 PM
Fold pre.

You got into this mess bc you played a bad hand preflop from a bad position
Can we still continue despite turning top 2 pairs on the turn? Quote
10-15-2018 , 08:27 PM
These spots give me nightmares, because they seem to happen a lot, and while there are certainly lots of combos you are behind to, with two flush draws on the board there will certainly be showdowns where KQ is good.

I'll go street by street.

Preflop is fine.

Flop is weird. You have a donk lead and call. The caller is an EP preflop raiser. I might spend some time in equilab on this one constructing ranges, but this might not be a terrible spot to fold. Despite the K this is not a great board for you facing this action. It's at best a slightly ahead/way behind spot. This is really not the flop and action we were hoping for when playing this hand preflop. It's nitty, but I can maybe chuck this hand here despite the pretty good odds. The problem is the bottom paired 4's on the flop. AA has to be a decent chunk of UTG+1's range, so our Q outs are no good.

Turn: Straddler checking is good, because you don't see too many players donk lead the flop with a strong hand and then check a turn that wettens up the board. We are more than priced in to call UTG+1's bet vs. a range of QQ+/AK/KQ. I think all you can do is call here.

River: So he just bet close to $350 into about $400ish? Yuuuuckkk. The sidepot makes this less likely to a busted draw. This feels like a boat to me with this bet. If you take AK out of his range, this is a clear fold, and I think betting AK this way is a huge overplay. I think I fold to this size bet.
Can we still continue despite turning top 2 pairs on the turn? Quote
10-15-2018 , 08:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minatorr
Fold pre.

You got into this mess bc you played a bad hand preflop from a bad position
And while we're at it, fold suited AK UTG+2. There's a reason why they call that hand "Walking Back to Houston."
[/OMC]
Can we still continue despite turning top 2 pairs on the turn? Quote
10-15-2018 , 08:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minatorr
Fold pre.

You got into this mess bc you played a bad hand preflop from a bad position
As played, any advice?
Can we still continue despite turning top 2 pairs on the turn? Quote
10-15-2018 , 08:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koss
These spots give me nightmares, because they seem to happen a lot, and while there are certainly lots of combos you are behind to, with two flush draws on the board there will certainly be showdowns where KQ is good.

I'll go street by street.

Preflop is fine.

Flop is weird. You have a donk lead and call. The caller is an EP preflop raiser. I might spend some time in equilab on this one constructing ranges, but this might not be a terrible spot to fold. Despite the K this is not a great board for you facing this action. It's at best a slightly ahead/way behind spot. This is really not the flop and action we were hoping for when playing this hand preflop. It's nitty, but I can maybe chuck this hand here despite the pretty good odds. The problem is the bottom paired 4's on the flop. AA has to be a decent chunk of UTG+1's range, so our Q outs are no good.

Turn: Straddler checking is good, because you don't see too many players donk lead the flop with a strong hand and then check a turn that wettens up the board. We are more than priced in to call UTG+1's bet vs. a range of QQ+/AK/KQ. I think all you can do is call here.

River: So he just bet close to $350 into about $400ish? Yuuuuckkk. The sidepot makes this less likely to a busted draw. This feels like a boat to me with this bet. If you take AK out of his range, this is a clear fold, and I think betting AK this way is a huge overplay. I think I fold to this size bet.
I agree the flop analysis - I was close to folding as it just seems to be way too actions until then - the only clean outs is a K and there are only 2 of them left in the deck assuming UTG+1 does not have one
Can we still continue despite turning top 2 pairs on the turn? Quote
10-15-2018 , 09:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanBostick
And while we're at it, fold suited AK UTG+2. There's a reason why they call that hand "Walking Back to Houston."
[/OMC]


While we’re at it, why dont we play KJo and QJo here too vs a 7.5xbb raise from UTG playing as UTG +2 ? Lul. Oh yeah, all those pretty soooted connectors too.
Can we still continue despite turning top 2 pairs on the turn? Quote
10-15-2018 , 10:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minatorr
Fold pre.

You got into this mess bc you played a bad hand preflop from a bad position
You can't profitably play KQ suited in a 1/2 game from EP? I'm not trying to be a dick, I would like to hear your reasoning on this. Yes there are RIO but our opponents should have so much worse trash, and it has great board coverage to double barrell opponents off their hand.
Can we still continue despite turning top 2 pairs on the turn? Quote
10-16-2018 , 12:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodybuilder32
You can't profitably play KQ suited in a 1/2 game from EP? I'm not trying to be a dick, I would like to hear your reasoning on this. Yes there are RIO but our opponents should have so much worse trash, and it has great board coverage to double barrell opponents off their hand.
Hm lol i didnt see it was suited, was pretty tired thought it was KQo. My bad. Pre is ok, esp with straddle on.
Can we still continue despite turning top 2 pairs on the turn? Quote
10-16-2018 , 12:10 AM
Ott seems like a pretty straightforward call, cant fold with double fds there and some dbl barreled broadways. Plus we beat AK

River ap i guess i meh fold
Can we still continue despite turning top 2 pairs on the turn? Quote
10-16-2018 , 04:14 PM
Raise flop bet.
Fold if re raised
Calling a pre flop raise with QKs is fine, imo.

Last edited by Nepeeme2008; 10-16-2018 at 04:35 PM.
Can we still continue despite turning top 2 pairs on the turn? Quote
10-17-2018 , 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepeeme2008
Raise flop bet.
Fold if re raised
Calling a pre flop raise with QKs is fine, imo.
Would raise flop only get action from a hand with a 4 in it from either the straddler (big blind could be looking to check raise with a 4 as they are the 2 players with more 4 in their ranges than UTG+1 and myself)
Can we still continue despite turning top 2 pairs on the turn? Quote

      
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