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Can we raise river here vs a nit? Can we raise river here vs a nit?

06-10-2017 , 01:09 AM
V is an older nit. Not a true OMC super nit but very nitty. The type who limp reraises with AA KK and never 3 bets AK.

Hero opens to 8 with KQo. 4 callers.

Flop KK3r.

Checks to villain in button who bets 12. Hero calls the rest fold. Villain has a king or 33 at least 90 percent of the time here. Maybe he shows up with 99-JJ once in a blue moon. He never has air.

Turn 8r. Check to villain who bets 30. Hero calls.

River 6.

Checks to villain who bets 55. Villain has about 120 behind.

The good news is unless he has 33 he doesn't have a boat. Maybe he shows up with K8s. I give him at worst KTo and KTs but I feel like KTo is usually a fold for him pre. Maybe in the button he is slightly wider.
Can we raise river here vs a nit? Quote
06-10-2017 , 01:38 AM
If he maybe shows up with K8s, then this is an easy call.

But either your read is wrong or your range is wrong.
Can we raise river here vs a nit? Quote
06-10-2017 , 01:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch
If he maybe shows up with K8s, then this is an easy call.

But either your read is wrong or your range is wrong.
I meant like I wouldn't rule K8s completely out. I think it's almost always a fold for him. If he's on my left he's folding 100 percent but after a couple callers on the button it's more iffy.
Can we raise river here vs a nit? Quote
06-10-2017 , 02:20 AM
Really comes down to whether we give him Kxo combos or not. If he can show up with KJo/KTo, it's a raise as played. We're not going to get to value territory via Kxs hands; we lose to 7 combos of AK & 33, and of course we lose to a few of the Kxs hands as well.

I'd prefer cbetting this hand 5 way against most opponents. Yeah we block everything, but why let a few lower pairs see a free turn? If someone has Kx, we might as well start getting value now, and it's not like someone with JT is going to put in lots of money if they pair up on the turn.
Can we raise river here vs a nit? Quote
06-10-2017 , 02:55 AM
he never 3bets AK and you want to raise this river?? you could probably just fold it instead.

why are you checking this 3 streets and not betting yourself???????
Can we raise river here vs a nit? Quote
06-10-2017 , 03:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Checkmaker
he never 3bets AK and you want to raise this river?? you could probably just fold it instead.

why are you checking this 3 streets and not betting yourself???????
The only street that is debatable is flop. I check flop because I have the board absolutely crushed and people will pay off with one pair later. If someone has a king I'm getting paid anyway. If the board was suited or the other card wasn't a 3 betting becomes more desirable.

Betting flop is certainly reasonable though. But what am I supposed to get called by except the case king?

As played, it doesn't make any sense to donk turn or river.
Can we raise river here vs a nit? Quote
06-10-2017 , 03:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay S
Really comes down to whether we give him Kxo combos or not. If he can show up with KJo/KTo, it's a raise as played. We're not going to get to value territory via Kxs hands; we lose to 7 combos of AK & 33, and of course we lose to a few of the Kxs hands as well.

I'd prefer cbetting this hand 5 way against most opponents. Yeah we block everything, but why let a few lower pairs see a free turn? If someone has Kx, we might as well start getting value now, and it's not like someone with JT is going to put in lots of money if they pair up on the turn.
I mean against their ranges that don't include 33 and AK I will still be ahead on the turn 92 percent of the time so that's not a huge risk but not insignificant. I think I also had two left to act after me. I'd be much more inclined to bet if I were closing the action.
Can we raise river here vs a nit? Quote
06-10-2017 , 04:27 AM
If he never 3bets AK and is a mega nit then this sucks but we are way too strong to fold. Although if he can have hands like K8 then I would feel better about going for value.
These types of OMCs can really overvalue some hands so I wouldnt be surprised if he has AA here thinking its the nuts seeing as you checked flop.
Call AP
Can we raise river here vs a nit? Quote
06-10-2017 , 01:39 PM
Hero opted to just call and he showed KTs. I was honestly surprised but think my perception was unfortunately colored by the fact that I raised for semi thin value twice earlier that day and got pretty coolered for stacks both times. I need to work on that.
Can we raise river here vs a nit? Quote
06-10-2017 , 02:21 PM
If you were surprised to see the 2nd most likely combo we beat, then it was almost certainly a good non-raise.
Can we raise river here vs a nit? Quote
06-10-2017 , 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Limpfoldjj
The only street that is debatable is flop. I check flop because I have the board absolutely crushed and people will pay off with one pair later. If someone has a king I'm getting paid anyway. If the board was suited or the other card wasn't a 3 betting becomes more desirable.

Betting flop is certainly reasonable though. But what am I supposed to get called by except the case king?

As played, it doesn't make any sense to donk turn or river.
You're giving random pocket pairs free 2-outers to stack you. I've seen this happen a few times myself, and a thread was posted about the exact scenario a few weeks ago where OP got stacked.

You don't have the deck crushed.

A lot of players are non-believers on paired boards, and a lot of players will expect you to trap with your Kx (like you just did!). So if you bet, most people aren't giving up yet with a pair.

AP, would just x/jam river. Don't think even a nit is folding KJs/K10s/K9s pre IP here, maybe even KJo as well.
Can we raise river here vs a nit? Quote

      
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