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Can we find a call here? 1/2 live Can we find a call here? 1/2 live

02-26-2016 , 12:37 AM
Playing 1/2 6 handed

Blinds post

Note: Table just started I have no idea who anyone is and the same goes for them. I havent played any major hands and may seem pretty tight, Villian does not know this he missed out a few hands and just sat down.

UTG+1 straddles for $6

UTG +2 Hero $200 AQo

Villain c/o $135~

Hero Raises UTG+2 to $15 w/ AQo

Folds to Villain. Villain calls $15 button-blinds fold pot ($38)

Flop comes Q67 all clubs (WE DO NOT HAVE A CLUB IN OUR HAND)

Hero Bets $20 on flop villain raises to $45 Hero calls $25 Pot ($128) villain has $75~ left behind

Turn comes 9h Hero checks Villain shoves for remainder $75..

Pot is $203 we are getting nearly 3:1 to make this call.

Hero?
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02-26-2016 , 12:40 AM
Trivial call as played.
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02-26-2016 , 12:41 AM
1- Too small pre given size of straddle. Make it $20.

2- Fold to the flop range if V is in any way ordinary. He's repping AcQx at the least.

3- Snap fold unless we have Ac ourselves, or V looks like a total degen, imo. I know the odds are awsome, but what is he raising flop and shoving this turn with that we beat? Maybe 78 or 89 with one club?
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02-26-2016 , 01:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
1- Too small pre given size of straddle. Make it $20.

2- Fold to the flop range if V is in any way ordinary. He's repping AcQx at the least.

3- Snap fold unless we have Ac ourselves, or V looks like a total degen, imo. I know the odds are awsome, but what is he raising flop and shoving this turn with that we beat? Maybe 78 or 89 with one club?
I guess i should of added that he just got stacked not too long ago and may be tilting. Isnt it crazy to fold TPTK on this flop when he basically min raises? wouldn't KcQ or A6c A7c other SDFD feel safe raising here. in which were doing alright against and can decide on future streets.
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02-26-2016 , 01:59 AM
at a new 6 handed table, isn't a fold preflop doable too?

AP - eh, "may be tilting" doesn't mean "is tilting" and paying him off is a sure way to get him off tilt. Villain did a nice job sizing the raise to set up the turn shove. If you're calling the flop raise, you're calling a turn brick, so here you should call and next time you should think about what you're going to do on the turn before calling the flop raise.
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02-26-2016 , 03:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Curious
at a new 6 handed table, isn't a fold preflop doable too?
No...you can fold AQo to an UTG raise but not a straddle.
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02-26-2016 , 03:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Curious
at a new 6 handed table, isn't a fold preflop doable too?

AP - eh, "may be tilting" doesn't mean "is tilting" and paying him off is a sure way to get him off tilt. Villain did a nice job sizing the raise to set up the turn shove. If you're calling the flop raise, you're calling a turn brick, so here you should call and next time you should think about what you're going to do on the turn before calling the flop raise.
why would we fold pre especially with a live straddle? You are right Im sort of committed at this point after calling the flop. Do you think leading this turn ever has any value. although this 9 completes some draws I dont think it improves V that much. c/c is the same as me betting except i gain some fold equity but V range doesn't seem to have a lot of hands that are folding as played.
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02-26-2016 , 04:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lonex312
I guess i should of added that he just got stacked not too long ago and may be tilting. Isnt it crazy to fold TPTK on this flop when he basically min raises? wouldn't KcQ or A6c A7c other SDFD feel safe raising here. in which were doing alright against and can decide on future streets.
A lot of villains don't feel safe raising unless they have a made hand. Some won't even raise AK using that reasoning. On the flop, some people will raise flush draws but on this flop they will worry you have the flush and if they are on the draw they have one less out.

Also a lot of villains with an Ac in their hand will shove the flop if they have the stack size that villain has. They don't raise it $25 more. A small raise like that makes it look like villain has you crushed but doesn't want to raise more because he is afraid of scaring you away. So he raises smaller to build to pot and get more chips out of you, and then on the turn when the pot is bigger he shoves (if he bets something like $50 on the turn he is almost all-in anyway so he might as well bet the full $75).

PF I'd raise $20, on the flop I'd fold and the turn as played is a snap fold.
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02-26-2016 , 04:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Curious
at a new 6 handed table, isn't a fold preflop doable too?
If it changes anything I'm less likely to fold at a 6 handed table. Hero is second to act and he already has the HJ. A standard $20 raise can easily get him position here because only the CO and BTN need to fold for hero to get position for the rest of the hand. Compare that to a 10 handed table where 6 people need to fold for that to happen, or a 9 handed table with 5 people needing to fold. And of course hero is less likely to get 3-bet when he is already so close to the BTN.
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02-26-2016 , 03:01 PM
Yeah folding is out the option preflop especially 6 handed and the straddle. That raise makes a lot of sense to set up a river shove. The only problem on the turn is i dont see V having any option but to shove now im thinking KcQ Acx some SD with clubs sometimes weaker Q with a single club whcih are enough hands im ahead of amd if im ever getting free rolled with AcQ it may be a disaster to call but at this point i dont think getting 3:1 folding is much of an option, T8/58 get there but is V playing these? Not sure i dont have enough information so although its a gross spot i figured i have enough equity to make this call.

Last edited by lonex312; 02-26-2016 at 03:18 PM.
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02-26-2016 , 03:11 PM
Fold flop imo because if you are questioning turn decision on a good turn card, then you should be folding flop.

Most standard 1/2 villains will just flat flop with Club draws.
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02-26-2016 , 04:10 PM
Well after tanking for awhile i decided to make the call and V flips over 59 9c. He rivers a 5. Now my question is do we ever donk lead blank turns in this spot if we feel we were ahead on the flop and the turn doesnt change too much. As played if i call flop i should be calling most blank turns right?
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02-26-2016 , 04:27 PM
Fold on the flop. It seems ridiculous to fold to a min-raise. I doubt your average 1/2 villain makes a semibluff with a single club. More often than not you're drawing dead.

You knew the shove was coming on every turn, which is why you needed to make your commitment decision on the flop. If you can't call this turn card, you shouldn't call the flop.

Folding pre is absurd.
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02-26-2016 , 05:38 PM
Seems like you're being way too results oriented. Most villains become really cautious when the flop cards all have the same suit. They don't start semi-bluffing with a bunch of hands.
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02-26-2016 , 05:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lonex312
Well after tanking for awhile i decided to make the call and V flips over 59 9c. He rivers a 5. Now my question is do we ever donk lead blank turns in this spot if we feel we were ahead on the flop and the turn doesnt change too much. As played if i call flop i should be calling most blank turns right?
Pffffff. Reload and be happy you have someone who calls raised straddles with 95o.

You could lead blank turns if you think you're ahead. However, you're almost always way behind when a 1/2 player raises your cbet on the 3-flush board.
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02-26-2016 , 06:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lonex312
Well after tanking for awhile i decided to make the call and V flips over 59 9c. He rivers a 5. Now my question is do we ever donk lead blank turns in this spot if we feel we were ahead on the flop and the turn doesnt change too much. As played if i call flop i should be calling most blank turns right?
Goddamn, that's gross.

Yes, if you think you're ahead OTF and continue, you should bet for all of villain's chips on a blank turn.
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02-26-2016 , 08:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lonex312
I guess i should of added that he just got stacked not too long ago and may be tilting. Isnt it crazy to fold TPTK on this flop when he basically min raises? wouldn't KcQ or A6c A7c other SDFD feel safe raising here. in which were doing alright against and can decide on future streets.
Yeah, the tilt bit widens his range a lot. I don't expect to see a no FE raise out of anything decently made, TBQH (though some players still do the "raise to see where I'm at" thing) but a lot more SD with one flush card type hands, or pair with a gutter and a bad FD.

Given the tilt factor, I probably shove flop if we have no clubs, and call flop/call turn if we have Ac.
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02-27-2016 , 11:18 AM
shove flop he has 75 behind he is literally playing with 20BB (with the straddle)
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02-27-2016 , 12:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonrubs
Fold flop imo because if you are questioning turn decision on a good turn card, then you should be folding flop.

Most standard 1/2 villains will just flat flop with Club draws.
I agree with folding to flop actions when you are just going to fold most turn cards anywyas. Raising draws is common enough though that we have to include it as part of the range of an uknown.
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02-27-2016 , 12:24 PM
I honestly think I fold to his flop raise because I'm not sure there is any turn card that can really improve my hand

I fold turn AP
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02-28-2016 , 03:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
Yeah, the tilt bit widens his range a lot. I don't expect to see a no FE raise out of anything decently made, TBQH (though some players still do the "raise to see where I'm at" thing) but a lot more SD with one flush card type hands, or pair with a gutter and a bad FD.

Given the tilt factor, I probably shove flop if we have no clubs, and call flop/call turn if we have Ac.
makes sense i definitely thought about shoving flop but i thought itd be terrible to do this since so many hands could call me that im drawing slim/dead against. wanted to see a turn and decide. gross spot i seem to always lose the most money on 3flush boards.
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