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Old 05-24-2018, 10:43 AM   #1
nevertilt19
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Can I really fold a flush here?

Hero(780)- Young White Woman, been 3betting a lot
V1(640)- usually plays tight, but for some reason after seeing me 3 bet alot he made a comment about "he was gunna call me down all night"
V2(400)- lag player been opening alot pre
V3(55) short stack player, didnt play many hands


OTTH

1/3 NL

V2 opens to 15 in CO. Hero calls with 98 on Button, V1 calls in SB, V3 all in in BB.
V2 calls, Hero calls, V1 calls.

Flop(220) K105

V1 bets 61, V2 calls, Hero raises to 261, V1 tanks then calls with "fug it attitude". V2 folds.

turn(803) 7 V1 all in for 263. Can hero find a fold here?

Last edited by nevertilt19; 05-24-2018 at 10:51 AM.
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Old 05-24-2018, 10:45 AM   #2
AllTheCheese
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Re: Can I really fold a flush here?

You can do whatever you want when you have no hole cards and you're playing at unknown stakes.
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Old 05-24-2018, 10:46 AM   #3
MikeStarr
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Re: Can I really fold a flush here?

What cards do you have?
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Old 05-24-2018, 10:46 AM   #4
Joey913
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Re: Can I really fold a flush here?

I would need to know what cards hero has in order to opine, but I'd probably call with Ac.
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Old 05-24-2018, 10:48 AM   #5
nevertilt19
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Re: Can I really fold a flush here?

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What cards do you have?
haha sorry refresh
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Old 05-24-2018, 10:49 AM   #6
HawkesDave
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Re: Can I really fold a flush here?

He sure seems to be repping a big club. You only need to win here 20% of the time, though. Pretty tough spot. I usually fold in these spots live but you added an extra dynamic with his comment made earlier. I think I'd still fold but I can't hate on anyone that argues to call. If he's doing this with a set (TT or 55) he still has 23% equity but I think you have to weigh a club here significantly higher. You can add in a few spazz bluffs (since he has minimal FE) but I just don't see it being +EV to call here.

Edit: I didn't look at the 2 Straight Flush outs. I think that makes this a clear call.

Last edited by HawkesDave; 05-24-2018 at 10:57 AM.
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Old 05-24-2018, 10:49 AM   #7
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Re: Can I really fold a flush here?

1) It would be nice to know what you have ... You obviously didn't feel like isolating the all-in.

2) Bad attitudes who suddenly shove usually have it. Suspect at least Q-high flush in V1 holding 'now' ... no less than KxXc when calling off Flop. GL

PS .. refresh = ???
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Old 05-24-2018, 10:50 AM   #8
AllTheCheese
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Re: Can I really fold a flush here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nevertilt19 View Post
haha sorry refresh
We still don't know the stakes.
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Old 05-24-2018, 10:51 AM   #9
Nippleman
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Re: Can I really fold a flush here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nevertilt19 View Post
Hero(780)- Young White Woman, been 3betting a lot
V1(640)- usually plays tight, but for some reason after seeing me 3 bet alot he made a comment about "he was gunna call me down all night"
V2(400)- lag player been opening alot pre
V3(55) short stack player, didnt play many hands


OTTH

V2 opens to 15 in CO. Hero calls on Button, V1 calls in SB, V3 all in in BB.
V2 calls, Hero calls with 98:club V1 calls.

Flop(220) K105

V1 bets 61, V2 calls, Hero raises to 261, V1 tanks then calls with "**** it attitude". V2 folds.

turn(803) 7 V1 all in for 263. Can hero find a fold here?
Absolutely can. You have one out to the higher flush, and there are three cards that straight beat you. V can easily have AcKx.
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Old 05-24-2018, 10:53 AM   #10
nevertilt19
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Re: Can I really fold a flush here?

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We still don't know the stakes.
1/3 NL
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Old 05-24-2018, 10:53 AM   #11
MikeStarr
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Re: Can I really fold a flush here?

Wow, that's really nasty. I guess I fold it, but it really sucks. I pray he doesnt show me a bluff after I fold.
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Old 05-24-2018, 10:54 AM   #12
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Re: Can I really fold a flush here?

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Absolutely can. You have one out to the higher flush, and there are three cards that straight beat you. V can easily have AcKx.
Actually she has 2 outs to a straight flush
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Old 05-24-2018, 10:55 AM   #13
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Re: Can I really fold a flush here?

You're calling off $263 into $1000+ with a 2-outer .. doesn't seem good unless you can find a bunch of 2-pair/set combos in V range. V might have been Hollywooding too with the nuts, and maybe a Jc blocker. GL

Last edited by answer20; 05-24-2018 at 11:01 AM.
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Old 05-24-2018, 10:57 AM   #14
MikeStarr
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Re: Can I really fold a flush here?

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Originally Posted by answer20 View Post
You're calling off $263 into $900 with a 2-outer .. doesn't seem good unless you can find a bunch of 2-pair/set combos in V range. V might have been Hollywooding too with the nuts, and maybe a Jack blocker. GL
Actually the pot is $1066 when it gets to OP.
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Old 05-24-2018, 11:00 AM   #15
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Re: Can I really fold a flush here?

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Actually the pot is $1066 when it gets to OP.
Are you editing my posts to make me look bad (worse)? GL
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Old 05-24-2018, 11:01 AM   #16
Nippleman
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Re: Can I really fold a flush here?

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Actually she has 2 outs to a straight flush
I thought it was a gut, not open ended, my bad.

The fact of the matter is that this villain raised before H was in hand, donked early, and is shoving into a monotone board. He might want to fight hero toe to toe, but since I have no indication of this V being a maniac, I don't believe he picks that fight here unless he has something. His bottom range here I would give him is K/10 off, and even that seems like a really strange set of plays considering pre.

I feel conflicted on pre, and I am just trying to figure out if I am being results oriented before I comment on it.
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Old 05-24-2018, 11:05 AM   #17
Nippleman
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Re: Can I really fold a flush here?

I guess I am giving V1 a lot of credit here when he calls and calls the BB raise again here in worst position, following it with a bet on the flop. 4 people going preflop into 3 clubs, the "fug it attitude" seems to be implying that he has a hand, might be ahead, but has outs if he is behind. You might as well have turned your cards face up, so I don't think he shows up with a bluff donk too often on the turn.
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Old 05-24-2018, 11:08 AM   #18
AllTheCheese
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Re: Can I really fold a flush here?

No idea. This is a super brutal spot.
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Old 05-24-2018, 11:12 AM   #19
nevertilt19
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Re: Can I really fold a flush here?

I'm going to go ahead a retract the comment about him usually being tight. Me and my husband have a bit of history with him, against him he is usually call stationy/tight. Everytime I play with him he trys to play alot of hands against me and play back at me.
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Old 05-24-2018, 11:19 AM   #20
Playbig2000
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Re: Can I really fold a flush here?

As played call. It's not like he's a super OMC nit
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Old 05-24-2018, 11:20 AM   #21
Nippleman
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Re: Can I really fold a flush here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nevertilt19 View Post
I'm going to go ahead a retract the comment about him usually being tight. Me and my husband have a bit of history with him, against him he is usually call stationy/tight. Everytime I play with him he trys to play alot of hands against me and play back at me.
That changes everything for pre, but how often does he bluff when he is being aggressive? I mean, you essentially changed pre to say his range is significantly wider, but how often does he show up with a bluff when he is the aggressive player?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Playbig2000 View Post
As played call. It's not like he's a super OMC nit
You don't have to be a super OMC nit to fold non-premiums into a raise and two callers ahead of you in worst position.
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Old 05-24-2018, 11:53 AM   #22
nevertilt19
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Re: Can I really fold a flush here?

Thanks for input guys, I made the decision to call a lot due in part to the fact that he was playing back at me a lot post flop and i knew there was at least a decent chance he had some inferior hands in his range which might make the odds of calling closer. It is 1/3 after all and the hands I see people show up with sometimes never cease to amaze me.

results:

Spoiler:
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Old 05-24-2018, 12:05 PM   #23
Nippleman
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Re: Can I really fold a flush here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nevertilt19 View Post
Thanks for input guys, I made the decision to call a lot due in part to the fact that he was playing back at me a lot post flop and i knew there was at least a decent chance he had some inferior hands in his range which might make the odds of calling closer. It is 1/3 after all and the hands I see people show up with sometimes never cease to amaze me.

results:

Spoiler:
*shrugs*

The guy is a boarderline maniac, or he put you exactly on your hand. The only reason he even thinks he can get you to fold there (without having any blockers) is because he knows you have mid suited connectors. In any event, play more hands with him as he is leaking. Calling with K10 off and then continuing is basically him just throwing money away.
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Old 05-24-2018, 12:10 PM   #24
nevertilt19
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Re: Can I really fold a flush here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nippleman View Post
*shrugs*

The guy is a boarderline maniac, or he put you exactly on your hand. The only reason he even thinks he can get you to fold there (without having any blockers) is because he knows you have mid suited connectors. In any event, play more hands with him as he is leaking. Calling with K10 off and then continuing is basically him just throwing money away.
This is one misconception that i see a few players make on 2+2. This is a 1/3 Live game, the average player is not looking to use blockers to bluff or make optimal plays using bet sizing. A lot are just plain feel players who either want you to fold or call based on their "bets".
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Old 05-24-2018, 12:31 PM   #25
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Re: Can I really fold a flush here?

We're fairly deepish so I don't mind the initial preflop call being in position in what will often be a HU pot. I also don't think there is anything wrong with folding.

Calling the 3bet is pretty meh as it is for such a huge percentage of our stack plus our hand now has more RIO issues now that it is so multiway; I'd much rather call this with Axs which is more likely to cooler someone than to be coolered.

With the pot already being $340, I think you could argue just to shove the flop and live with results.

I'm likely folding the turn. We really only have a bluffcatcher at this point and it's less likely the opponent is bluffing when a decent part of the pot is protected. Still, it's possible this is a set that doesn't know what else to do.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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