Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Can I get away from AA? 1/2 NL Can I get away from AA? 1/2 NL

04-13-2018 , 11:48 AM
Interesting hand I played earlier this week.
1/2 NL

My stack: $310
V #1: $220
V #2: $240

Preflop: I am in HJ look down at two red AA. One limp behind me, I raise to $15. V1 calls the $15 out of BB and limper(V2) calls as well. ($46 in pot)

Flop: 10 6 4 rainbow. Checks to me, I bet $30, both call. Still think I have the best hand. ($136 in pot)

Turn: 3, putting club draw on board. V1 leads into pot for $30?? V2 calls, I raise to $85. V1 insta-jams($145), V2 tanks for awhile and he goes all in as well($165). Now it is on me. Both of these players play a wide variety of hands, but haven't really shown down any bluffs. I just think there is too much money in the pot to be folding here, even if I don't think I am good.

Any advice on this hand? Thanks.
Can I get away from AA? 1/2 NL Quote
04-13-2018 , 12:05 PM
I would have just called OTT IP and played the river. It is a WA/WB spot with a hand that has good SDV.

You have to ask yourself why you are raising here? I don't think you can make a good case that it is for value and there is really only backdoor draws to worry about.

Just call the $30 and get to see what your opponents to on the river.

AP, because u raised, u now have to fold.
Can I get away from AA? 1/2 NL Quote
04-13-2018 , 12:14 PM
you played it fine. Players donk turns like this when they gain equity, especially when they donk weak, they x/r when they hit the nuts. He probably has a pair + FD now and just wants to get it in in case he hits.
Can I get away from AA? 1/2 NL Quote
04-13-2018 , 12:18 PM
I don't understand the point of your mini raise. Can you explain why you raised $55 more into a $200 pot when you should have expected one of them to go all in if they continued given they only have about $50-75 more on top?

I really hate the idea of doing this as a bet/fold line given how much of the stacks are in already

The only thing that has me nervous is that two people are getting 200+ in, and I don't see a lot of villains dying to get 100 bb in with worse than your hand very often. But, you're only going to need 13% equity or something like that to call, so you probably have to call it off.
Can I get away from AA? 1/2 NL Quote
04-13-2018 , 01:18 PM
given stack sizes your mini raise indicates you want a shove
now that you got what you wanted you got cold feet?
Can I get away from AA? 1/2 NL Quote
04-13-2018 , 01:38 PM
Could easily be drawing dead here against 57 (V1)

As nothing more than a general rule, we should call with our strong hands and raise when we have more nutted hands or hands with equity (FD, OESD, etc).

In this case we have a strong hand and should just call on the turn and evaluate on the river. Sucks when other hands make it over our AA, but it happens.
Can I get away from AA? 1/2 NL Quote
04-13-2018 , 01:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rumor
I don't understand the point of your mini raise. Can you explain why you raised $55 more into a $200 pot when you should have expected one of them to go all in if they continued given they only have about $50-75 more on top?

I really hate the idea of doing this as a bet/fold line given how much of the stacks are in already

The only thing that has me nervous is that two people are getting 200+ in, and I don't see a lot of villains dying to get 100 bb in with worse than your hand very often. But, you're only going to need 13% equity or something like that to call, so you probably have to call it off.
The mini raise was intended to fold out one of the villains, trying to get this hand heads up going to the river as I think AA is going to be good lots of the times in a HU situation, the way the hand has played.
Can I get away from AA? 1/2 NL Quote
04-13-2018 , 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishsoup
Could easily be drawing dead here against 57 (V1)

As nothing more than a general rule, we should call with our strong hands and raise when we have more nutted hands or hands with equity (FD, OESD, etc).

In this case we have a strong hand and should just call on the turn and evaluate on the river. Sucks when other hands make it over our AA, but it happens.
Good point. Thanks for advice.
Can I get away from AA? 1/2 NL Quote
04-13-2018 , 01:54 PM
Really don't like the sizing on your turn raise. If we are going to raise, it'd be to get in stacks, so despite the potential bad sign of both players going AI as played we're obligated to call.
Can I get away from AA? 1/2 NL Quote
04-13-2018 , 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorn7
I would have just called OTT IP and played the river. It is a WA/WB spot with a hand that has good SDV.

You have to ask yourself why you are raising here? I don't think you can make a good case that it is for value and there is really only backdoor draws to worry about.

Just call the $30 and get to see what your opponents to on the river.

AP, because u raised, u now have to fold.
I see what you're saying about calling the turn, but if I am making this raise shouldn't I be more inclined to call these all ins rather than fold? I don't understand your reasoning for a fold.
Can I get away from AA? 1/2 NL Quote
04-13-2018 , 02:06 PM
This is not an appropriate pot size to raise/fold. If anything we should just be shoving this turn.
Can I get away from AA? 1/2 NL Quote
04-13-2018 , 02:06 PM
I mean, it's 80 more into like 540. Either just call OTT or ship it in. AP, I'm probably sigh calling it off. The pot's too big and your hand is slightly too good to fold here.
Can I get away from AA? 1/2 NL Quote
04-13-2018 , 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GemCityGrinder
I see what you're saying about calling the turn, but if I am making this raise shouldn't I be more inclined to call these all ins rather than fold? I don't understand your reasoning for a fold.
you got re-raised and then a call
for you to overcall here you need a stronger hand

when making calls / raises sizing vs stack sizes and pot size needs to be considered

I call due to my own sizing errors
Can I get away from AA? 1/2 NL Quote
04-13-2018 , 02:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowman
you got re-raised and then a call
for you to overcall here you need a stronger hand


when making calls / raises sizing vs stack sizes and pot size needs to be considered

I call due to my own sizing errors
Here is the reasoning.
Can I get away from AA? 1/2 NL Quote
04-13-2018 , 02:49 PM
Don't raise the turn, just call. You only have a one pair hand. As played you are pot committed and must call it off.
Can I get away from AA? 1/2 NL Quote
04-13-2018 , 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GemCityGrinder
The mini raise was intended to fold out one of the villains, trying to get this hand heads up going to the river as I think AA is going to be good lots of the times in a HU situation, the way the hand has played.
Why are you trying to fold out worse hands with this sizing is the real question? At the price you set, you aren't folding out a flush draw or a 5 against anyone who can do math, nor are you folding out 2 pair hands or sets or straights. All you are folding out are single pair hands that are worse than you.
Can I get away from AA? 1/2 NL Quote
04-13-2018 , 04:42 PM
You were going to bet the turn if villain didn't donk into you. Don't let him set his own price for the river with his weaker range. There's no reason not to think we're beat yet. All-in over his donk bet.

Call now due to ridiculous pot odds. There's no way you don't have equity against their ranges to call.
Can I get away from AA? 1/2 NL Quote
04-13-2018 , 05:23 PM
$40 on the flop.

AP, never folding.

Quote:
Call now due to ridiculous pot odds. There's no way you don't have equity against their ranges to call.
This x10
Can I get away from AA? 1/2 NL Quote
04-13-2018 , 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by browni3141
You were going to bet the turn if villain didn't donk into you. Don't let him set his own price for the river with his weaker range. There's no reason not to think we're beat yet. All-in over his donk bet.

Call now due to ridiculous pot odds. There's no way you don't have equity against their ranges to call.
This.

You have AA, on a good T high board, for ~100bbs. Just shove the turn.
Can I get away from AA? 1/2 NL Quote
04-13-2018 , 07:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by browni3141
You were going to bet the turn if villain didn't donk into you. Don't let him set his own price for the river with his weaker range. There's no reason not to think we're beat yet. All-in over his donk bet.

Call now due to ridiculous pot odds. There's no way you don't have equity against their ranges to call.
I shove the turn here every time. Due to the crazy action that ensued there's a good chance AA is beat this time but that doesn't mean shoving isnt the correct play.
Can I get away from AA? 1/2 NL Quote
04-13-2018 , 09:15 PM
Please don't call the turn, shoving seems clearly best.
Can I get away from AA? 1/2 NL Quote
04-13-2018 , 11:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GemCityGrinder
The mini raise was intended to fold out one of the villains, trying to get this hand heads up going to the river as I think AA is going to be good lots of the times in a HU situation, the way the hand has played.
This is faulty thinking. You were up against 2 people not 1 when the turn hit. If one of them hit and you raise and the other one folds, it hasn't gained you anything. I know I'm not explaining this correctly, maybe someone else can say it better. It's like playing 1 card poker with only 5 cards, Th,Jh,Qh,Kh,Ah. Cards are dealt to 5 of you, you get the Kh and bet, 3 people fold, and you lose to the Ah, you can't think 'Well, I thought I could win if I got it to heads up'.

Anyway, on the turn I agree with shoving. Things are getting confusing, there's several draws out there, just give the worst price you possibly can.
Can I get away from AA? 1/2 NL Quote
04-15-2018 , 03:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GemCityGrinder
Interesting hand I played earlier this week.
1/2 NL

My stack: $310
V #1: $220
V #2: $240

Preflop: I am in HJ look down at two red AA. One limp behind me, I raise to $15. V1 calls the $15 out of BB and limper(V2) calls as well. ($46 in pot)

Flop: 10 6 4 rainbow. Checks to me, I bet $30, both call. Still think I have the best hand. ($136 in pot)

Turn: 3, putting club draw on board. V1 leads into pot for $30?? V2 calls, I raise to $85. V1 insta-jams($145), V2 tanks for awhile and he goes all in as well($165). Now it is on me. Both of these players play a wide variety of hands, but haven't really shown down any bluffs. I just think there is too much money in the pot to be folding here, even if I don't think I am good.

Any advice on this hand? Thanks.
Turn play is bad. If V1 is nitty I would just flat call. If he's a typical fish he could be betting all kinds of crap like club draws, pair + SD, SD + FD, etc. So raising is fine but the sizing is messed up. Given the stacks are 165 and 145 and the pot is already 115 you should just ship it.

AP I doubt you're good but you've given yourself an attractive price to call. It's a dumb situation you could have avoided. I'd go on live reads if you can get any. There are enough draws I probably call at this point if I'm not sensing extreme strength, but at least one of V1 or V2 likely has 75 or at least 43 which beats you all the same.

And yeah...AA wins more HU but you're not HU. You got two calls OTF. And why would you want to fold out one of the villains unless you're behind? And if you're behind, trust me, they are not folding. Your logic for this raise sizing makes no sense.

Last edited by Shai Hulud; 04-15-2018 at 03:15 AM.
Can I get away from AA? 1/2 NL Quote

      
m